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City Beat, Cincinnati OH
March 2001

by Mike Breen [interview transcript]

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Mike: Tell me about the making of the new album. Did you approach it differently than your previous efforts? Did it really take five years to make?

Linford: Well I guess I should start at the beginning. When we got out of our contract with I.R.S. Records back in 1996, we decided to release independently the home recordings we had been working on in preparation for our next record. We called that collection of songs Good Dog Bad Dog. We had lost a lot of focus as a band artistically and otherwise toward the end of our tenure with I.R.S. We weren't sure where we were going anymore. We really were contemplating calling it a day.

And yet I knew in my gut (or wherever it is that we feel our intuitions most deeply) that the songs that Karin and I had written at that time had been written from the heart. Songs like Latter Days, All I Need is Everything, Etcetera Whatever and Poughkeepsie felt as if they were directly connected to our souls. Those songs told a story that we were dying to tell. So even though we were sort of starting from scratch in terms of our career, we decided to keep moving.

I also knew from experience that Karin had the ability to move people deeply. I had seen this first hand from the first time I ever heard her sing back when we were teenagers in college. Karin's voice could get inside people. I guess I figured we would be alright.

Also, shortly after we put out Good Dog Bad Dog, Ric Hordinski left the band to pursue a solo career. We had brought the music and our working relationship as far as we knew how, and Ric had some exciting developments with his work as a producer, so it made sense for him to bow out. I think this was a healthy development for all of us and allowed us all to make a new beginning.

To make this part of the story short, Good Dog Bad Dog surpassed all our expectations. It quickly outsold anything I.R.S. had ever released for us, and for the first time in our career, peers like Sarah McLachlan, Cowboy Junkies and others began seeking us out to voice their appreciation for our music. Sarah told Karin that Good Dog Bad Dog had been her antidote for writer's block. Cowboy Junkies invited us to tour with them for almost two years, and Karin and I ended up recording two albums worth of material with them: their live album, "Waltz Across America", and the forthcoming studio album for Rounder Records called "Open". They were so gracious, and we gleaned a great deal of wisdom from them, had a lot of laughs, covered a lot of miles. Maybe sitting in with another band (as well as doing our own music) sort of took the pressure off for awhile.

In the meanwhile, record labels (including Capitol and A&M) started getting interested again, and I'll spare your readers the gorey details, but it mostly just felt all wrong. So we decided in 1999 to begin recording a record on our own. We had heard about an old bus full of vintage recording gear in Nashville that was owned by someone we had met by the name of Dave Perkins. Dave had a long history in pop music, and we were quite taken by the idea of working on this funky old bus that had a long history of its own. We recorded eight of the eleven songs on Films For Radio that summer.

I don't feel like we approached this album all that much differently than the others, but we've always been committed to not making the same record twice. Each record is a wild card. We're always surprised by what we bring home.

One difference however was that we did bring in some outside players that we were huge fans of: Don Heffington on drums (one of the original members of Lone Justice who went on to record/perform with Bob Dylan, Emmylou Harris, Victoria Williams, The Wallflowers and others) and Byron House on bass who had also toured with Emmylou, as well as a wide variety of bluegrass outfits or trippy underground pop bands.

Mike: Films for Radio is personally my favorite album you guys have done. What are your feelings on it now that it's all wrapped up and ready to be enjoyed by the masses? What kind of response do you anticipate from the long-time fans?

Linford: Well thanks. It still always means a lot to learn that people connect with our music. Many have commented that they feel Films For Radio is our most accomplished work so far as a band. As I was saying, we don't ever want to be accused of making the same record twice. I guess our desire is to always explore what we're capable of creatively without losing the essence of who we are. I think Over the Rhine is ultimately about Karin's voice, and the confessional songs that we write together. It feels to me as if Karin is singing on this record like it's her last night on earth, and I think the songs are worth getting lost in.

There are always obsessive doubts and fears and hopes that accompany releasing a new record. One minute you're working mentally on exactly what you're going to say when David Letterman invites you over to chat after your phenomenal, heart-warming performance. The next minute you're imagining what it will be like to return home from tour and take a janitorial job. Do they still make mops with wooden handles? What will the toilet bowl cleaner smell like? Petunias? Over-ripe oranges? Will I really be able to keep things clean and shiny enough for all the people?

I think Films For Radio will be a good record for us, and I think our long-time fans will find plenty to enjoy. We're drawing from the same well we've always drawn from. In so many words, we're just telling people what we've seen, what we've thought about, what we've dreamed and imagined, how we've lost our way, how we've found our way back.

Mike: What's with the title? Before I really paid attention to it, the first thing I thought of was that some of the songs had that big, visceral 'theme song' kind of feel - "The World Can Wait" should be the next James Bond theme; "I Radio Heaven" begs for closing credits rolling over it, among others. Coincidence (with the title)?

Linford: Maybe the music did influence our choice of title. The record is a bit more textured, and the palette of sounds is bigger I suppose.

There's a writer and film maker here in Cincinnati by the name of Aralee Strange. Aralee wrote a radio play about ten years ago called "Etta Stone: A Film For Radio." Etta Stone really knocked me out (Chris Dahlgren and Jay Bolotin had contributed music, and Aralee's words were just so imaginative and heart broken and playful). I never forgot that "Film For Radio" concept. One night at Kaldi's Coffeehouse down on Main Street, I asked Aralee if we could call our new record Films For Radio, and she said we could.

The title for me has more to do with attempting to see and live our lives as if we're writing a story with the days we've been given, whether or not we ever pick up a pen. I feel like the characters in these songs are all pretty much asking (in the first person) the same questions: How do I live a life worth remembering? What must I do to make the story of my life a true story? Am I really both the protagonist and antagonist in my own story, have I lost the plot, what about the cast of characters, the people I have known?

I don't think of Films For Radio as a concept album, but if there is a loose theme, it can probably be summarized with a line from the first song: "So fade to black and white now, roll the movie of my life inside of my head..."

Mike: What are your hopes for this release? Are you dying for the hit single or have you settled in to your long-term artist skin (a good skin to own, I might add)? Does the label give you any pressure on the singles-front?

Linford: Every label wants a single. (Don't ever let anyone convince you otherwise.) Nobody gets up on stage hoping to be ignored. (Don't ever let anyone...) We'd love to see the record do well and get some attention, but seeing our career grow is not what we feel is most important. Living life vividly, working to give the world my version of something beautiful, discovering what I believe to be true, enjoying my lover (who also happens to be my wife) and a few close friends--these are some of my real priorities. I know that writing and recording songs is something I'll always continue to do. I've found my life's work regardless of what happens.

That being said, I think Films For Radio is a record I would be happy to add to my collection if I didn't know Over the Rhine from Adam. I think it's a good record that will stand up to what's out there.

Mike: How do you think Over the Rhine fits into the big picture of music these days? Do you pay much attention to the mainstream? What's your take on the current state of the music biz?

Linford: I've always believed that Over the Rhine could be an important band, as "big" as any of the artists that I looked up to as a kid. I think we've been a slow burn, but I know a lot of people are aware of us, and a lot of other up and coming musicians write to us and say, "I wish we could figure out how to do what you've done." I think we've got an important record in us that will get made somewhere along the line, and I suppose that one day we may well be hailed as an overnight success when the mainstream finally does catch up with us. I'm not sure we do fit in. We're probably misfits in a lot of ways. Being a misfit can be a detriment initially, and a huge asset further down the line. What's important is being yourself and telling the truth as you see it.

I don't personally listen to a lot of commercial radio by any means, but our record collections are pretty diverse. If something gets under our skin, whether it be a classic Miles Davis recording, or the new Sigur Ros album, it'll be around for awhile. The thread that ties our record collection is this: We want to be moved. We want to spend time with music that is connected to the soul of the musician(s) making it.

In most ways, the music industry seems about the same to me as when I began getting involved ten or fifteen years ago. There have always been and still are huge corporations disseminating a lot of bullshit, and there have always been and still are wonderful records that manage to get themselves made in spite of all the bullshit. There have always been people on the scene trying to shake things up with smaller companies and different approaches. The internet is exciting, but I think that for the foreseeable future, people have overestimated the internet's impact on business as usual.

For an emerging act like Over the Rhine, the internet has been a God-send. We have about 40,000 unique visitors at overtherhine.com in any 30 day period, and that number continues to grow weekly. It's a great tool for staying connected with people who have discovered our music, but we wouldn't have those visitors if we hadn't toured for years and put out records that we believed in.

Mike: You guys have always been very appreciative to fans and have offered rare MP3's on your site. Where do you weigh in on the big Napster debate - nice promo tool or money-sucking pirating?

Linford: I can see both sides, but I would err in the direction that major labels have been stealing from musicians for years, and are over-reacting. Sales of records are up. Napster hasn't hurt the industry in any significant way in my opinion. I have had people approach me after concerts, confessing that they downloaded one of our records through Napster and didn't pay for it. But they liked what they heard enough to buy a concert ticket and check out the band, and maybe they bought a cd or two at the show, or took home a t-shirt. I'm always happy to see Over the Rhine's music get spread around, but maybe I would feel differently if I was Elton John (as if he needs the money) or that guy in Metallica (bad call for accusing Metallica fans of being bad dogs, phenomenal publicity stunt).

Mike: The band line-up has fluctuated since Ric left. Who IS Over the Rhine these days? Is it basically you and Karin, plus some talented friends to flesh it out?

Linford: Over the Rhine is whoever Karin and I invite to join us in making our songs breathe, and come into focus. Jack Henderson relocated to Cincinnati from London, England, and has been playing guitar for us for about five years. Jack protested at first that he had never thought of himself as a "guitar player," but Karin and I were so taken with his songwriting and what he had to offer as a human being, that we knew it would all work itself out sooner or later. The reality is that Jack has evolved into a fine player, and continues to write phenomenal songs. He has a project of his own coming out later this Spring. Right now, we've got a gifted multi-instrumentalist from Nashville playing bass for us named Chris Donohue. And Dale Baker will be touring with us this year on drums. He's played and recorded with Sixpence None the Richer for the last six or seven years.

Mike: How has your experience been with Backporch in comparison to your dealings with I.R.S.? Were you at all reluctant to sign another big deal after your IRS experience? You guys seem to do very well on a do-it-yourself level.

Linford: We've always been pretty good at the vegetable stand approach. When I was ten years old, my father used to load me down with his organic strawberries and send me down the big hill to sell, sell, sell to the neighbors. I guess I learned it's not hard to sell something that you poured your heart and soul into. My father was pretty passionate about strawberries. Come to think of it, if John Lennon hadn't written that one song, maybe I would have. That's my problem: He stole all the good ideas already. We do a brisk business when we keep it close to home and hands-on. The trick has been figuring out how to take our music to the supermarket, the hypermarket. Stuff tends to get packaged and homogenized, sanitized, pulverized. People are looking for an instant cup of coffee or a tv dinner, and that's when we start feeling like misfits.

But fresh, homegrown food does sometimes get noticed. There is a demand, and I think our time will come.

We were a bit nervous about signing a record deal, but the Vice President at Virgin seemed to want to take the approach that Over the Rhine already had vibe and vision. We just needed some help spreading our music around. It felt pretty real. When they agreed to start by picking up the story where I.R.S. had left off, by releasing Good Dog Bad Dog nationally for the first time early last year, we knew we had come to the right place.

It's working out well so far, because Back Porch is a smaller division that gives us a lot of attention, and Virgin has the experience to know what to do with a pop record. It could all change overnight--we are talking about the music industry after all, but right now, Back Porch and Virgin are doing a really good job with the record. We're going to enjoy it while it lasts. Who knows, it may last a long, long time.

Mike: Thanks again, Linford.