In an article on MSN Sean Nelson suggestions that some older artist need to hang it up. He gives us a list of 10 artists and pictures to boot... (A-Rod, what were you thinking??) I was entertained by the article and his humor and generally agree with his assessment of most of these artists. However, it got me to thinking about other artists that should hand it up and the one's that are aging gracefully, for instance, Steve Winwood whose latest CD Nine Lives is very good.

Elton is one of my all time favorite artists, but to be honest he hasn't done a solid album since 21 at 33 in 1980. I still listen to all the albums from Madman Across the Water to Rock of the Westies on a regular basis. But since then, other than 21 at 33, there are only a hand full of songs that I listen to and that was like 15-20 albums ago. Van Morrison is another artist that just isn't doing it for me anymore. I loved his run from Inarticulate Speech from the Heart (1983) to Hymms To the Silence (1991) and of course the early stuff as Moondance and Brown Eyed Girl will be with me forever. But since Hymmns, I just can't seem to get through any of his CDs without being bored to tears.

On the other hand, a group of geezers got together and formed The Subdudes. These old guys know their limitations and are producing some very listenable music! Bruce Cockburn is still producing great music and I can't wait for the DVD that is supposed be due out in the near future. Boz Skaggs DVD is very enjoyable. And I'm seriously thinking about buying Steve Miller's DVD.

What other artist should get the boot and who do you want to hear more of?


Here's Nelson's top 10 list:

Madonna
Black Crowes
The Who
Ray Davies
Joni Mitchell
Bryan Adams
Rolling Stones
Elton John
Carly Simon
Def Leppard


Enough Already!
By Sean Nelson
Special to MSN Music

Even though the Who famously hoped "I die before I get old," plenty of veteran musicians have managed to stay relevant far past their predicted sell-by dates. Just look at Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, even Elvis Costello and Prince -- still making vital, interesting albums well beyond the age of 50. But what about the ones who don't age gracefully, or who don't know when to quit, who keep pumping out records year after decade? Some people just stay too long at their own party, and MSN Music is here to turn on the lights.

Retna Ltd.


The Who

Surely any list of the five most important rock bands of all time must contain the Who (they're No. 4 on my list; Nos. 2 and 3 are also on this list).

But let's be serious: Have they made a good album, or, OK, an important album since 1973's "Quadrophenia," which I don't even like that much but kind of have to grant you, otherwise we go back to 1969's "Tommy," because I don't like "Who's Next" (1971) that much? The answer is NO.

And it's not because they're old (though it is partially because their drummer died before he got that way). It's because people run out of gas, and Pete Townshend's gift for the short sharp vulnerability ran aground of Roger Daltrey's tendency to grunt and growl instead of sing.

"Endless Wire," the putative Who album from 2006 was one of the most painful listening experiences I can remember -- not one good song, not one good part. How was this the Who? Well, it wasn't. And now they're working on a new one. Here's hoping they never finish.



The Rolling Stones

It's such a cliché by now to make fun of the Stones' advanced age in relation to their live act that you almost forget how long it's been since they've made a good album.

The answer is 36 years. The album was 1972's "Exile on Main Street." If you want to be generous, you could make the case for "Some Girls" in 1978.

Either way, it's been at least three decades since "the world's greatest rock and roll band" could genuinely lay claim to that title. And yet, every time they mount a new tour, a new album comes along to diminish the worth of what should, in fairness, be called "the world's greatest rock and roll brand."

I know, I know, you can't always get what you want, but if a couple of grizzled old glimmer twins are reading this, I hope it's not too much to hope that, with the recent release of "Shine a Light," this could be the last time.


Def Leppard (see also, Whitesnake)

There was a time -- let's call it the early '80s -- when it seemed like this good-looking, young Zeppelin/Sabbath-lite semi-hard-rock band's hit strewn "Pyromania" LP was a perfect expression of the MTV-defined pop times.

Then a few years passed, tragedies beset the band and they managed to earn a big comeback, in the form of "Hysteria," featuring the unstoppably dumb mega hit "Pour Some Sugar on Me." That was 1987, 21 years ago.

In the meantime, it has become clear that the meaningless (though somehow still stupid) lyrics, good-time party attitude and retrograde iconography is better served up by bands that are young and dumb, not just dumb.

Not because it's more rock to be old, but because anyone who isn't 20 has no business making music so brainless -- just ask their new album. Pour some ointment on them; they're done.

along the same lines, mick jagger turns 65 today. if he were an american citizen, he would be eligible for medicare and social security.

Madonna always reinvents herself, so I'm fine with her. Ray Davies is still around? Genius, but I haven't heard anything from him. I don't see why he's in anyone's crosshairs.

Def Leppard has always, always, ALWAYS sucked, IMO ... even as a fan of hard/arena rock, I never took them seriously. And, sorry Brucie, but can Boy George and Duran Duran PLEASE go away?

Eh I'd agree with Madonna. She's rehashing and redoing everybody elses stuff. That last "rap" song was a blatant attempt at imitating Debby Harry and failed miserably.

Rolling Stones I saw in 2005. I'm not a big fan but got free ticket. Mick's vocal range is very limited now. He couldn't do the high notes in Paint It Black. Yeah they put on a big show and yeah 3hrs was impressive to perform. Still aside from the hits, there wasn't too much exciting stuff from their "new" album.

Def Leppard-They and Poison are the 80's cockroaches of music. They just won't go away. Oh yeah and Motley Crue. Ugh. Makes me want to puke.

Last time I heard Duran Duran "sing" LeBon's pipes didn't quite sound up to snuff.

R.E.M.-Those guys just fizzled out years ago(I'd say around "Monster"). They didn't figure out how to change and still stay relevant.

Metallica-St. Anger was garbage. The money they made, the therapy and rehab destroyed all the anger and motivation. That and their anti-Napster campaign made them look like greedy vindictive jerks. That movie "Some Kind of Monster" also made Lars out to be some ADHD type of jerk. Oh yeah and it was especially hard to feel sorry for him when he's buying artwork for his 4000+ sq home and then selling it at Christie's for insane amounts of money.

You know who I wish would go away? Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. If you've heard one of their CDs, you've heard them all. Zzz...

Wow...I couldn't disagree more. I agree Elton's post-70's output has been spotty, but I think Made In England and Peachtree Road are really wonderful albums. I'd take 1995's "Blessed" over a lot of his more famous ballads...such an incredible song. Despite the dated production, I also think there were some great songs on The One, and thought Songs From The West Coast and The Captain And The Kid were also very consistent, enjoyable efforts. Not life-changing, but certainly (IMO) better than many of his contemporaries were doing in the last decade.

I also think the new Van Morrison album is really good too, and while he's made some missteps, I think 1999's Back On Top and 2005's Magic Time also stand out amongst his later albums. I also disagree with his assessment of the Stones...A Bigger Bang, while maybe 4 songs too long, was a lean, back-to-basics rock record that stands up to any of their better post-Exile efforts like Tattoo You.



Here's the thing...nothing these guys do, even Dylan, is going to match up to what they did in their creative peak. Bruce isn't going to make another Born To Run, Van isn't going to do Moondance II, etc. Just doesn't work that way. Also, your life isn't going to be changed by any of these guys' new music, because you're past the point where that can really, emotionally happen. Our ability to love and feel music doesn't change when we get older, but I think that moment of revelation, that moment where you hear something and get that feeling that it's something more incredible than you've ever heard in your life, is pretty hard to get after awhile, simply because you've been on the planet longer and have processed so much music and life experiences already.

I mean, I think of the songs I distinctly associate with that feeling when I was growing up..."Baba O'Riley," "November Rain"....I remember being exposed to Fleetwood Mac for the first time when The Dance came out (other than hearing a few of the songs on classic rock radio) and being completely floored by it. I remember buying a cheap used copy of The Joshua Tree in the mid-90's around age 14 and it changed my life.

And I'm not even that old, but I feel like I rarely, if ever, have that feeling anymore. There's new bands I've discovered that I love...The Polyphonic Spree, Jenny Lewis, Goldfrapp, Keane, Muse...but that feeling of musical revelation...maybe at a point we've taken in so much music that it's just not possible, because there's just not a lot of new sounds and ideas left that we haven't heard, just new artists to reshape the musical past in their own unique way.

This is especially true with older bands...Elton, Townshend, etc, only know how to write like themselves. They're not going to surprise us anymore, it's just not possible, even musical changelings like U2, Bowie, or Peter Gabriel. You've heard so many Stones records by this point, that even a solid one like A Bigger Bang or Voodoo Lounge isn't going to resonate as much as it would have 20 years earlier. It's just how it is, unfortunately.




Having said alllllll that....he's right about The Who. It's not even that John and Keith aren't there (which is a big part of it), it's that poor Roger just can't hit those notes anymore. Even on the studio record, he sounds old and strained, like he's still trying to sound like it's 1973 instead of just adjusting his singing style to fit his aging voice. He sounded okay on the 2000 Live at The Royal Albert Hall show, but it's gotten progressively worse since then. Some of the vocals on Endless Wire are just painful, which is too bad, since I thought there were some good compositions on the disc, even if it didn't really feel like 'The Who.'


Band who needs to give it up more than any other band alive: Kiss. Ace and Peter are long gone, replaced by fill-ins wearing their makeup, playing the same set year after year. Blues-based bands like the Stones I think can keep going till they keel over and die, but someone like Kiss who's entire schtick is a high-energy, explosive stage show needs to accept they're just too damn old to be parading around in the same costumes they wore when Love Gun came out.

Aerosmith. I would've called it off after Toys in the Attic.

I know I'll probably get outnumbered on this, but ABBA music. It was bad enough hearing it the first time it came around during the dark ages of music when we were being drown in disco.

Oh no! They're coming back?????

Yes, via the Mama Mia movie (which followed the Broadway play), and the Target store ad that came to my house this week is featuring a "best of" ABBA CD.

sounds like a bad dream

Dude...Go buy a copy of Rocks. Now. I'll wait. Then come home and play it as loud as your speakers can go without distorting and/or spontaneously combusting. Trust me. It's like the bible, but with guitar solos.



I do think they should've called it quits after Nine Lives, before that ****ing Armageddon song. Maybe I'm partial to Nine Lives because I was 15 when it came out and associate some good times with that record, but I think it's solid, and certainly not a blemish on their catalog. But Armageddon was really the nail in the coffin though.

I'll assume that the writer of the article referenced in the first post accidentally slipped and fell into a pile of dirty syringes laced with wildly psycho-active substances, because that seems to be one of the only explanations for how The Black Crowes could have made his list. Yes: the band isn't the same as when Johnny, Ed, and Marc were part of it. Sorry, Rich: you're not a gifted soloist. But the Crowes' problem has a lot less to do with not being able to rock and a lot more to do with personnel issues.

Madonna's "music" has never even been a blip on my radar, so I couldn't really give a cold dog turd as to whether or not she keeps going. Yes, she comes up with clever ways to "reinvent" herself, but she never has been and never will be a compelling vocalist--though I'm sure such barbs will hardly penetrate the moutain of money she currently lives upon.

WARNING: Blasphemy Ahead!

I never cared for The Who. I understand why they're important, and I get their popularity. But their offerings have just never resonated with me. "Teenage Wasteland" makes me want to pour acid in my ears everytime I hear that god-awful falsetto opening.

It's difficult for me to suggest that artisits "hang it up," seeing as nobody is holding a gun to the heads of the people going to their sold-out shows. I wish Elton still sang like he did/could in the '70s, but if he (or any ageing artist) still has the need to create, I don't feel as though I'm in a place to ask him not to.

That said....

My list of performers/bands who would not break my heart if they retired:

-- Any '80s hair band. I won't lie: I owned Hysteria and Dr. Feelgood. But I was 9. The entertainment value of the music decreased as my age increased.

-- The Eagles. Maybe if they would just stop writing new material...because it sucks....HARD.

-- Heart. Wilson wrote some decent guitar licks. That's the only nice thing I have to say. Oh, and "Magic Man" is a decent song.

-- Cher. She just signed a contract with someone in Vegas. How are there any Cher fans left? Come to think of it, after so many times under the knife, how is there any Cher left? (ba-ZING!)

-- U2. Now wait. Don't fly off the handle. I f'ing love U2. Really. But Bono's huge voice is so integral to so many of their songs. I just don't want them to become another Rolling Stones where all their talent fades and their shows just serve as a nostalgia-fest. I respect their right to leave on their own terms, but I don't want to be at a show and feel compelled to take a bathroom break when "With or Without You" starts up.

Ann Wilson sounds almost as good in her late 50's as she did in the 70's, and not a lot of singers can say that. Heart gets a free pass just for Ann being so ****ing awesome.

The Eagles should've quit before Hotel California. That way I wouldn't have had to hear that god-forsaken song 800,000 times against my will.

I don't think U2 will become the Stones. The Stones put out a great album in 2005 and played 3, maybe 4 songs off it live. U2 put out a decent but not amazing album, and still fit 7-9 new songs into every show (and some of the songs I was iffy about on the record really improved in their live versions). They've said they'd hang it up if they started making crappy albums, but I don't think they're there yet, and with full Eno/Lanois involvement, I have pretty high hopes for their new one.

I've not seen the Stones since Steel Wheels, live, but saw the Scorcese film & have to say they've seen better days. BUT, please don't even try & compare a group like U2 with the Stones.....just don't

yeah, and they'll never be as good a toto either.

(sorry, i just type the name toto and have to laugh out loud)

Well, if it's not Tom Waits or a hot chick...

yeah... the beatles, ryan adams, johnny cash, alejandro escovedo, steve earle, dylan, townes, the band, teddy thompson, john hiatt, bruce, tom petty, richard thompson, ry cooder, daniel lanois, rodney crowell, ray lamontagne, r.e.m., steve winwood, t-bone burnett, tim easton, willie, van morrison (i could go on)...

yep, they're all babes i tell ya...

toto (yep, still made me laugh)

*yawn* Anything outside the roots rock/americana genre? You need more rock in your life, sir.

Find me a better groove rock drummer in the last 30 years than Jeff Porcaro. I dare ya.

dude, i had more "rock in my life" before you got out of diapers than you'll probably ever hear/see in your lifetime. i didn't leave rock, rock left me so i moved on and grew up to music that speaks to me now. and when and if there is good rock out there (such as ryan adams, petty, alejandro, etc) i'm more than willing and happy to listen to it.

and imho, toto (yes, it still made me laugh to type it, and their "groove rock drummer") is simple pop music, nothing more, nothing less. not even close to "rock."

(and now i've got that synth driven drivel "rosanna" stuck in my head and can't get it out..."ouch" )

ok, enough sniping between steve and i, back to the discussion of "old geezers that should retire"...

how 'bout toto?

(sorry, couldn't resist...and yes, it still made me laugh)

I thought most people here understand music is very personal and subjective. Ridiculing one's taste in music can be quite insulting.

My list of old timers in need of hanging it up pretty much includes any band from 30+ years ago reduced to playing the Indian Reservation Casinos circuit (e.g., Journey, INXS, etc.).

I feel you about INXS and Journey....but I'm not sure what side to take on that. The Farris brothers and Neal Schon/Jon Cain wrote the music for their respective bands, and it belongs to them as much as it belonged to their more famous singers. Should the other 4/5 of the band just have to retire because their singer died or because he's just a total dick? I don't really know, but it's something to think about.

Ryan Adams is rock? Really? I know he has a tendency for Axl-esque tantrums, but a singer-songwriter with a band does not equate to automatic rock dominance. My mom would probably listen to him if I could get her to listen to any music made after 1995 that isn't the Dixie Chicks, and she's the least rocking person I know. (sorry Mom, but it's the sad truth)

I tried to get into Alejandro Escovedo but it just wasn't happening...I would hear all the Springsteen comparisons and maybe was expecting something a little more melodic and anthemic, I guess. It wasn't awful or anything, but none of the songs really stuck with me at all.

Dave Grohl-with Nirvana and especially his "guest" appearances on QOTSA "R" and "Songs for the Deaf"

John Rutsey-Rush

first drummer with Pearl Jam-Irons?

Matt Cameron-Soundgarden


I respectfully disagree with you on The Stone's 2005 album. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either. The fact that it was better than their last album or so doesn't make it great. And I heard them live in 2005. They put on a great show. But vocally, Mick just doesn't have it anymore. "Paint It Black" was painful to hear.

Neil Diamond. I wish he'd disappear. Oh yeah, and Celine Dion. I can't tell whether she or Shakira sound more like a female Mr. Ed when they sing.

John Rutsey? Seriously?

I like Dave Grohl but he isnt' really a groove player...he just beats the living shit out of his drums really well. I like Cameron's drumming for Soundgarden and Pearl Jam a lot though...Pearl Jam went through a ton of drummers but I think Matt's the best one they've had.


My newest vote: Rod Stewart. I actually will defend Rod on the basis of his first few solo albums and the Faces stuff, all of which is absolutely classic. Don't ask me how I stumbled on this, but man, the guy's voice is completely shot. It almost made me sad, because even though this song kind of blows, I imagine hearing the classics at this show was just as painful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igZcDcSMreQ

On the flipside, I've heard some of Joe Cocker's recent stuff and the guy still sounds great. (if you were into his voice to begin with) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WEHriALvuk

note this date/time. i agree with steve!

that album (or were there two of them?) of standards was and absolute embarassment. just pitiful. i was forced to endure listening to it one night at the friend of a friend's house. there were times i almost laughed out loud.

i saw an "infomercial" selling it on tv, it looked like a bad "SNL" skit (well, they're all bad now, but it would have even been bad on SNL).

(but yeah, the faces and early solo stuff = brilliant, once he "went disco" = sucks)

I don't get it. Why not?

They are both hugely influential groups, perhaps even equally so. The Stones enjoyed their heyday closer to Rock's naissance, so they are ascribed an artificial hallowedness by some critics. But really, they share the same sine qua non of many seminal rock bands of that era: they were white guys who weren't afraid to play black music. Ask Keith Richards. He'll say the same thing. Hell, the Stones' most famous song is an Otis Redding cover.

Bono is sometimes a megalomaniacal douche (though as a rock-star, that kind of comes with the starter kit), but he is ten times the vocalist Jagger ever was, and 100 times the lyricist. And Edge is a way, WAY more inventive player than either Wood or Richards (or the blonde dude that drowned). There is no definitive way to quantify these things, but if you measure the impact U2 has had on music since the mid-80s and compare it with what the Stones did for Rock in the c.1965-1975 era, I think you'll find the effects comparable. One could make cogent arguments that A.) the two biggest bands in music right now are Coldplay and Radiohead, and B.) neither band would exist in their familiar incarnations if not for the music of U2.

So I reiterate my original sentiment: I love U2 too much to have the memories of their great songs tainted by potentially mediocre performances brought on by the inevitable decline that age lends to a singing voice.

Huh? Otis did do "Satisfaction," but it was recorded about a month after the Stones' original was released. Great cover though, like just about everything Redding did.




Agreed, but I thought the Vertigo tour was great...it was a bit too similar to the Elevation setup but the performances themselves were still great, and at times, breathtaking. Bono isn't what he was in 1987, but I think he still sounds good enough to do justice to the catalog. And I think them working with Eno and Lanois again implies they're not just going to put out an album for the sake of making one...whether it's great or not remains to be seen, but I think they genuinely want it to be the best music they can make, rather than just product like a lot of bands do in their final years.



Keep saying stuff like that and you're gonna make me hate U2 for things that aren't even their fault.


I agree with what you said regarding the Stones and U2's influence in their respective timeframes...a good comparison there, I think.

I just never got U 2.....they're mediocre to my ears, but that's just me. Agreed, they've a huge fan base, but just never did hear much in 'em.

yeah, the way i read that, it sounded like he was saying that the stones covered otis on satisfaction and was hoping that was just jame$ flashing his witty sense of humor. otis did rock thast song tho...



much the same for me w/U2. no doubt they have flashed w/moments of greatness. and while i think bono personally has does some very positive things non-musically for the world (mainly using his celebrity as a "bully-pulpit" for several causes that i personally believe in), i think his personna is a bit too pompous, self-righteous and overblown, for my tastes anyway. there is no doubt who scott stapp "wanted" to be (well, other than jesus). as a whole, they've really never done much for me.

plus, bono just sounds too much like griffin house for my taste.

Chaka Khan.

She's touring again/still.

re: "Satisfaction"

Well shut my mouth. I guess I should do my homework in the future

I find that people often forget that Redding did "Respect" before Aretha, and I guess my memory just lumped "Satisfaction" in with hits that were originally his as well.

My bad.

Not that Jagger's a great vocalist, but (and this whole argument / debate could go on & on) Bono's vocals , to my ears, are somewhat irritating....and lyrically.....? But guitarists.....Maybe Edgie shines above Richards ....maybe, (I'm not so sure) over Brian Jones but certainly not over the Mick Taylor guitar-era-Stones

Like Pico John said, subjective...to each his own

It's not only subjective, music can be specific to times, places and generations. I was a pretty big U2 fan through their first four albums. There was something about coming of age in the early 80's and the music they played. The same can probably be said for the Stones for an earlier generation. I like listening to the Stones, but I cannot say their music ever spoke to my generation. It's almost like comparing American Graffiti to a John Hughes film (like The Breakfast Club) - you almost had to live the times at that age to really 'get' the magic of that era.

I will say - screw U2 and the Stones when we have a new OTR album!!

Mick Taylor is sadly overlooked in the discussions of great guitarists. Although I think he kind of dug his own grave (metaphorically) by leaving the band when he did. I think someone convinced Taylor he could be a big solo success, which of course never happened. I keep holding out for some kind of archival live releases from the Mick Taylor era at some point...Get Yer Ya Ya's Out is good, but there's even better stuff floating around in bootleg land.


As for U2...you have to see them live, I think, to really get it. No other arena-sized band that I can think of, besides maybe Queen and Springsteen, is able to connect with a huge audience in such an intimate, personal way.

Having read a lot about the band, both their own words and books/articles written about them, Bono may be a pretentious ass, but I don't think the band would've made it without him being that way, and believing in what U2 could become even before they'd learned to write good songs. And I can excuse it, because he's pretentious in a lot of ways, but never in a malicious way towards other artists or genres. He's never thrown a Ryan Adams onstage tantrum or bashed other artists in interviews like Oasis or Axl Rose. I'm not saying he can't be annoying at times, but at least he keeps his arrogance and confidence largely contained to himself and his band.

And personally, growing up with the early years of the grunge era, where it was all about how horrible success was and how much it sucked to be a rock star, there was something that really appealed to me about how Bono did things, especially onstage. I still admire Kurt Cobain as a songwriter, and Eddie Vedder grew up and finally accepted being in a really successful rock band can be a lot of fun, but when I discovered U2 in the mid 90's, it felt like fresh air to me in a lot of ways.


As for Otis...I love me some Aretha, and just like I'd take her version of "The Weight" over the overplayed Band version, I'd take Otis' original "Respect" over its more famous cover version any day. He just slayed that song. Although the Monterey Pop Festival versions of "Try A Little Tenderness" and "I've Been Loving You Too Long" might be my favorite Redding recordings. Just...****ing intense. I don't know how else to describe it.

American Graffiti was before my time, being a child of the 70's, but having grown up on the Midwest and having a dad that was a dragracer, made American Graffiti a great movie to me. However, I also dig Breakfast club (and St. Elmo's Fire). So I'll ask you, did you dig FM, or High Fidelity or Juno? Can you relate to them?

Like several others here, I didn't really appreciate U2 until Joshua Tree and Rattle & Hum. However, I can't stand their 90's albums, nor the retro album as they just seem boring to me.

I haven't listened to the Stones seriously since Some Girls as it all got too dancy for my tastes...

On the flip side, I saw Little River Band a few yeas ago. They picked up the lead singer from Player so it was somewhat interesting to hear LRB play Baby Come Back. Unfortunately, the dude just couldn't hit the high notes anymore. But they can do what Billy Joel did, hire a back up singer to hit the high notes for you... Speaking of BJ, doesn't he have something new coming out?

Another guy I'd like to add to the list of being old but still going strong is Gary Moore. He started back with Skid Row in the early 70's, but these days, he's playin' some mean blues! I won't say everything he does is great, but certainly enough to keep me interested. His ballads are some of the best on the planet is far as I am concerned.

Brett Michaels! I am so sick of seeing his reality TV show on. Who watches that stuff!

Just my late 2¢ on the Stones vs. U2 discussion:

Mick Taylor was a great rock guitarist, but it seems to me he was pretty straight out of the Claptonesque overhauling-of-black-American-blues-guitarists mold. The Edge with his groundbreaking percussive technique, on the other hand, has been more influential than anyone else I can think of on modern guitar style. I'm sure he had his influences too, but for my money he's one of rock's few true originals.

I agree that the music you grow up with has special meaning for most people, and there seems to be some kind of biological imprinting that goes on in the teen years through the early 20s. I always loved Mick Jagger's singing, which I first encountered when I was 14 -- it was meant to be "ugly" and the Stones were all about deliberate contrast with the prettier and more melodic stylings of the Beatles, Dave Clark Five and other British bands who were also building careers on music derived from American R&B during the early 60s. While I don't have the same emotional attachment to U2's music and often find Bono annoying, I would have to concede their ideologically driven working class power rock is more original and unique than the Stones' music and at least as influential. I rarely listen to either of them nowadays, but I think U2 has probably done a better job continuing to make relevant music. I don't much like anything the Stones released after Exile on Main Street.

I also agree that if people are still paying for concert tickets and new releases it's kind of silly to expect old musicians to go away. It's just kinda sad to me that so many people my age (and many quite a bit younger) seem to wallow in nostalgia when there's so much good contemporary music to enjoy.

FTR I think Africa is a really cool song, although I haven't heard anything else by Toto I'd ever want to hear again.

- 2points for tardiness

FTR, I am a Toto fan. Africa's a great song, but there are plenty of others by Toto. Of course, you kind of have to like Power Pop...

99
Hold The Line
Georgy Porgy
I'll Be Over You
Pamela
I Won't Hold You Back
Spiritual Man

And of course most of Toto IV


They not only played their instruments well having been backup musicians before they formed Toto, they did and still do turn a phrase rather nicely.

From the silly:

Georgy Porgy
Puddin' Pie
Kissed the girls and made them cry


To the tear jerking power pop:

I'll Be Over You

Some people live their dreams
Some people close their eyes
Some people's destiny
Passes by

There are no guarantees
There are no alibis
That's how our love must be
Don't ask why

[Bridge:]
It takes some time
God knows how long
I know that I can forget you

As soon as my heart stops breakin'
Anticipating
As soon as forever is through
I'll be over you

Remembering times gone by
Promises we once made
What are the reasons why
Nothing stays the same

[Bridge:]
There were the nights holding you close
Someday I'll try to forget them
Someday I'll be over you


To their newer music that gets a little proggy in places:

Spiritual Man

I heard about a man, walkin' on the water
He had hope in his eyes
He didn't wear a crown or have any money
He didn't have any lies

He had holes in his pockets
He had holes in his hands
He looked like an outlaw talkin' to his lover

He was a spiritual man

I wanna be a prince, not a king or a warrior
I wanna have a special light in my eyes
Wanna climb up a mountain, find a tree of wisdom
I wanna feel good when I cry

And maybe someday I could be a teacher
I want that karma when you touch my hand
I'll walk through the streets,
Talking to the homeless in winter

I wanna be a spiritual man, yeah

I heard about a man who was born in the desert
He rode for days and nights across the sand
And one day, he came upon an angel
The angel said, "Hey you, you're gonna be a spiritual man!"

Instrumental Break

Last night I saw a man walkin' toward a club in Harlem
He had a black case in his hands
Went through the back door and pulled out his gold companion
He closed his eyes and played all night LONG like a self-taught spiritual man

Yeah, he was rather pompous even way before they hit it big with Joshua Tree. Check out Bono's classic stage antics from the old Apple Computer US Festival in California.

axl rose. go away. please. just. go. away...now. please. go. seriously. go.

wow, they wrote that? then they must really be old, because i think i learned that little rhyme when i was in nursery school.

Obviously I didn't post the whole song...

*pats Bill on the back*

yeah, never could get into the appeal of his chronic whininess. Time hasn't done Axl any favors

are you talking about his vocals or his personality? or both?

MADONNA....she was born old!!:)