Thanks Zayne, I'm going to the Wallingford show!

Bill, wanna go to the Indy show?

a saturday night in downtown indy sounds great to me! let's do it.

Man, I wanna go see him but I HATE Chastain park - too many folks bring their food and candles and all but they TALK all through the performances. I am not one who goes to a concert to talk to Muffy and Ned about how great my lobster salad is, and the wine, oh my gosh, this wine is the best! Let's light the candles! How pretty ! Shut the F*** up and enjoy the music!

OK, so I may go - I am thinking (hoping) the crowd will be different than the normal Chastain crowd.

I want to see Ray. Will I like Guster? I haven't heard of this group.

I've been hearing Ray and Guster (or more specifically, Ray and Guster's fans) are not a very good mix and there have been some problems on this tour.

I don't know much of Guster's music myself, I know Becky and some other orchard folk are fans.

Problems? Oh boy! What kind of problems? I just agreed to go...here goes nothing...

i like guster a lot...dustin and i may be going to this show. i just got my work schedule, and i AM off that saturday...so we'll just have to see.

i haven't heard anything by ray...but i want to see him since keith likes him so much.

As a person, it's obvious Ray is painfully shy and insecure and has very little stage presence in terms of his patter between songs. But once he starts singing... wow! Generally he starts off soft and slow and builds up to his more intense songs as the set progresses.

Ray and Guster are co-billing on this tour. I've heard Ray has thrown his guitar and has walked off early a couple of shows, reportedly due to a cold reception from Guster's impatient fans who regarded him as an opener overstaying his welcome.

I had planned to see him for the third time last Friday in CT, but I had to prepare for a graduation party here at home.

Jessyka, you should just run out and get Trouble -- it's an amazing album.

yes you should. brilliant damn record.

jessyka, your two old dudes said... "go get it...now!"

jessyka is broke...but i'll go and check it out with my second paycheck! (the first one will be for less than 40 hours of training...ick!)

i promise to obey my old dudes!

Good thing Sunshine, cuz OLD DUDES RULE!!

(seriously -- I even saw it on a t-shirt)

Well then, if its on a Tshirt, it must be right.

And for those of you who just picked up the last Ray LaMontagne CD and those who already have it,
there's a brand new one on the way-
Till the Sun Turns Black- out on 8/29

well, he was close, the memory is the first thing to go you know...

I'm home from a great show at Meadowbrook. Ray did a good job...his singing gives me chills. What a beautiful voice! My favorite song, In the Arms of a Woman was his second song! (I was surprised, somehow I thought that would be near the end.) He did stop performing sooner than I expected and there were big fans there cheering him to come back, which he never did. Apparently he was supposed to play a bit longer (we ended up chatting with someone running the show...) but he finished his music and left the stage. He was wonderful, but doesn't seem to enjoy performing a whole lot.

I also enjoyed Guster! Wow. They had a great percussion man, a banjo, guitars, base, keyboard...articulate lyrics, good grooves, excellent stage presence...fun and relaxed. They made a fan out of me tonight. At one point they asked the front to have inside voices for just one song and they played this BEAUTIFUL ethereal, instrumental type piece that I have to get my hands on. I do not know how many cd's they have out or which I should start with but I was pretty impressed and had a blast after going in with no expectations.

Glad you got such a good show, Carrie. I've heard Ray has gone all Ryan Adams on fans at a couple of shows, and he's reportedly pulled out of the second leg of the joint tour with Guster that was planned for the Fall. I hope he develops a little thicker skin!


No, the t-shirt I'm thinking of has a bald guy with a long beard in swimming trunks with a surfboard, and next to him:

OLD
DUDES
RULE!

My cousin-in-law has one, got it in California.

What do you mean he went all Ryan Adams?

Insulted them on stage for not paying attention.

...


...


Nah, it's just too easy.

I probably shouldn't admit this to all the apples here but I am not too familiar with Ryan Adams. Possibly I do not want to be if he is rude to his fans. I need some education on him Keith.

Oh dear...what were you thinking?

Eh, just that I like making fun of Ryan Adams.

this was posted on ryan adams message board by ryan himself (as he's often known to do), must have been an interesting night in knoxville. here's hoping he's calmed down by tues night in nashville and thurs in indy. btw, there always seems to be a group of asshole idiots in his audience just trying to freak him out and piss him off. one, i don't understand why someone would pay good money to ruin a show. two, everybody, including ryan knows this but he continues to let it get to him. i don't get it. but he is a brilliant artist, writer, performer when he's on, but some nights he can be a train wreck waiting to happen.
................................................................................
............................................................................

KNOXVILLE TRUTH
Author: Ryan 7/27/06 4:32:43 AM

the reality is...every show has a curfew. fuc*ing fact. I keep seeeing or hearing this childish bullshit and i will settle it for once and for all.
The Venue or whatever venue we are playing, have employees. they have staff. we have a roadcrew and driving time and onyl so many hours to get our equpitment rig packed before these people go home. Also theaters have CURFEWS...they do. esp. seated venues.
Knoxville had a strict 11-00 curfew. it was no smoking and 11 firm. we get charged money by the minute after the time we are to be off. because the bartenders and staff all have lives and familys and it takes time to close the venue up and get things set up for the next show.
i left the stage AFTER 11. 5 minutres after. I respect house rules because i want to be able to play places again and not burn promoters and not fu*k over house staff.
I talked about this before but nobody listens. Whatevewr i had to say at the end of the show was just that. and of course something else.
it has no effect on the gig,
and you know, i am happy to play all fu*king night. its why we ride all that way to play. thats what i want to do. play.
not fu*king talk about heartbreaker by the bus, not fu*king listen to some drunk rant about god knows what, ive been there done that. i want to play. aside from tuning issues because the a.c. changed alot from soundcheck to gig, there was alot of focus and we opted for some other songs than the set list tunes because like all bands we adapt to the surroundings and our shit was screwey. so we did our thing and kept it rolling.
and i am so sick off the whole "he talked too much, didnt talk enough shit" it means nothing,
I am not on tour to be your friend, I am on tour to be in the cardubaks and sing and play guitar and get first place on galaga.
thats it.
so stop it with all this projecting drama on us in here. some of you people are so crazy. you dont know us. just listen to the music,
its just some tunes.
sheesh
................................................................................
............................................................................
second post:

Re: KNOXVILLE TRUTH
Author: Ryan 7/27/06 4:53:53 AM
well. you know. i just want to play and have a kick ass time on stage with the lovelys up there and go and play some video games and have some quiet time.
our best gigs happen when people are the most chill. you know, its weird because i am not a famous person but i have trouble just hanging round sometimes without people getting stirred up. i think its trhat whole entertainment tonight celebrity mag type b.s. culture spilling over to the rock world or something.
i wouldnt dare bother another musician unless you know, i needed to borrow something. or they were hot. ha.
seriously though, the bus is our ride man. its not THE STAGE PART 2. we gotta live outta that shit while we are rolling. people gotta have some respect.
besides, i dont like talking about music when im not on stage. i just want to be left alone.
and that shit was NOT FU*KING happening in Knoxville. nice folks but a bit hammered overall it seemed and i couldeent get food before we left and shake hands and babies too. and i needed to get set up before our drive.
so thats that.
its all cool.
youd think we walked in that place and just vomited on stage and left after how they talked about it.
def. not coming back to knoxville after this. couldnt care less.

Wow. What a dick. Sorry Bill.

I dunno, as someone who wants to do this for a living, I feel like being accessible to fans and not being a dick is also a job responsibility if you choose to be a touring musician. Sorry (b)Ryan, it is about more than just playing some songs, it's about knowing where your income comes from. I've seen OTR close to 30 times, and there's maybe been 2 or 3 shows where they didn't come out afterwards, even after that Double Door show that was a million degrees inside. Hell, even Bono comes out and meets fans before shows, and he really has no obligation to do that.

I definitely understand the tendency to just want to crash after a show sometimes, but the whole "I just want to be left alone" thing is something I'd expect from Axl Rose, but not a guy playing a little theater in Knoxville. I guess I just feel that by touring, you sacrifice a bit of that alone time out of respect for your fans, especially those hardcore fans who hang around after or before shows just to say hello or maybe get a picture or something signed. If your "alone time" is more important than that, then maybe you should just stick to making studio albums. But that's just me...

(also, while I completely understand having bad feelings about a venue or a city after a less than spectacular show, it's in really bad taste to post that publically on your website, since presumably there are still some nice people who were at that show who might have wanted to go see you again in the future)

steve:

if bono "has no obligation to do that" then why does ryan adams or anyone else? is that just because he's "bono?"

personally, i don't think any musicians/artists/performers have an obligation to do a "meet and greet." it is their job afterall, if i buy a gallon of gas, i don't expect the CEO of exxon to chat with me about it, and i understand that they have a schedule, a life and things they want/need to do when they are "off the clock", just as you, i, or anyone else does. i think it's great and i enjoy and appreciate it when they do. but, i'm not mad/upset/pissed when they don't. to me, it's not an expectation. my expectation of any artist that i go see is that they go out onstage and give me the best of what they've got on that particular night for a reasonable amount of time. that's it. no less, no more. i realize that from time to time, that as performers/artists, they will have "off nights," that things may not click, etc. and that some nights will be better than others. but, if they give me that effort, i'm good with that.

and guess what, if he came out tomorrow, clean & sober, clean cut, polite and gave a perfect three hour set night after after and hung out by the bus for two hours after a show, people would be bitchin' and whinin' about the good old days when his shows were unpredictable, crazy and a trainwreck.

What I meant about Bono is that it's not going to make a difference in his career if he ever meets another fan, U2 will sell out pretty much every show for the rest of their careers no matter what. He has nothing really to gain from doing it...is what I meant.

Adams is not at that level, he could release a couple of bad albums and be mostly forgotten in a few years. And no, no one's obligated to do anything for fans besides go and play for 90 minutes or 2 hours or whatever...it just seems like a really nice thing to do and a really effortless way to connect to those people who are most supportive of your music (and, coincidentally, probably spend more money on your CDs/shirts/shows/etc than most people). Really, compared to traveling and performing, spending 30 minutes basically getting a huge ego boost from appreciative fans who just want 30 seconds to say hello really isn't all that much of a hardship. He just seems to have this confrontational attitude towards his audience that really rubs me the wrong way, like he's gotten such a huge universal hand job from music critics and such that he can just take the audience for granted because they'll keep going to see him no matter what, even if he disses an entire city on his blog.

Have Steve and Bill provided enough education for you, Carrie?

As far as I'm concerned, Ryan Adams is an incredibly talented jackass. I don't think he has any obligation whatsoever to meet & greet either (I agree with Bill that is all "above & beyond" and us fans of OtR and Cowboy Junkies are incredibly spoiled), but there's also no call for publicly berating fans and your band members when they don't meet your unrealistic expectations. It's just very childish and unprofessional, and I think it's entirely his own fault he now has idiots coming to his shows just to bait him.

I've seen him once, and even though it was a really kick-ass show before he wigged out, I doubt I'll go see him again unless he stops acting like a 3-year-old because it just annoys me to watch adults behave like that. This despite the fact he's one of my two favorite living white male singers. Unfortunately, the other one appears headed down the same path...

If you're interested in hearing some of Ryan's music, his classic album Heartbreaker is probably a good place to start.

thanks for sharing all this Bill, Steve and Keith.
I knew Ryan Adams was a talented jackass, but not to this extent.
I guess I'll look at him in another way, now.
So who's the other white singer Keith?

Ray LaMontagne.

i think i was having a blond moment there Keith

no argument on any of that. one of his biggest problems seems to be the live audience that he has somehow cultivated, in most cases they are just loud, drunk, rude assholes.

to me, i guess he's just a risk/reward kind of thing. there is always the risk that he'll play the male diva, freak out and stalk off the stage. but man, when he's on, he is brilliant, it is a truly a special night. i'm hoping that i've lowered my odds in seeing a meltdown by going to the show at "the holy mother church of american music" (that would be the ryman), in hopes that he has enough respect and reverence for the place that he won't act like a fool there (but who knows, both hank williams and johnny cash had infamous meltdowns there). i hope he and the crowd both behave.

now sadly, two nights later at the vogue in indy (a GA show) all bets are off...

You simply beat me to the question and I'm not blonde. I should have known the answer as well!

Wow, they sure have. I think I'll stick with the album for now!

However, if he is that high on your list I will definitely check into him. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with a starting point.

dustin surprised me with tickets to the guster/ray show tonight in indy!

so, we just got back from the show. i was definitely impressed, by both artists.

we're happy to see that ray's next cd is due out in late august...we'll be picking that up, i'm sure.

he played for about 50 minutes...he didn't talk much at all. but that's ok. he seemed to have a pretty good following...a bunch of people left after he stopped playing.

of course, it took guster over half an hour to come out after he finished...that sucked.

but all in all, an awesome show. we'd definitely go see both of them again.

over half an hour? you say that like it's unusual. isn't that about how long any act takes to come on after the opener? that's been my experience anyway...

I'm so glad you went! It is just a really fun show to see.

well, they were supposed to be co-headliners, and the stage crew was off the stage in 15 minutes, so yeah, i thought that more than half an hour was a little much.

Yeah, I never understood that either, especially when band #2's equipment is set up behind the opener, so that really once the opener's stuff is off they're ready to go, yet it usually takes around 45 minutes. I think this is a venue thing, so that people will go buy more drinks while they wait. It always kinda bugged me too (since I rarely get drinks at concerts), but It's just how it's always been.

It bugs the piss out of me when it's a standing room only venue (I hate being exhausted by the time the band I came to see actually plays), but otherwise I actually like the down time between sets for the afformentioned drink reason, as well as a bathroom break, and chat time with friends. At SRO halls, I usually skip the openers and try to get there just in time for the main act. sucks if they're popular and you want to stand closer, but at least I'm not wishing the show was over so I could rest my aching back and feet. This friday will be the first time in a while that I've stood through both opener and main show, but since it's Sonic Youth and Flaming Lips I'll gladly oblige (and probably won't notice as much since I'm into both groups).

Yeah, I'm pretty tired after standing only shows, but it's worth it. It's worse when there's a high energy, rocking performance and half the audience is sitting down for it. If I went to a show every night, it'd get to me, but once or twice a month it's worth it.

that's the problem with SRO shows though, too. by the time the main group comes onstage, most of the NRG has been drained out of the room, and people are just standing there, which is just as bad as just sitting there (this was especially noticable at Flaming Lips last time I saw them - one concert you don't want to just be standing there for).

Hmmm, I disagree...I admit it makes the band have to work a little harder but at the best stnading-room shows I've seen in the last year or two (KT, Imogen, U2, etc) it didn't seem to matter. Even OTR at Schubas was great...I don't usually picture them as a standing-room type show, but I think the energy at Schubas was among the best of any OTR shows I've ever been to.

I'm with Steve, I love a high energy stand-up show. If the music is good, any tiredness I may feel after 3 or 4 hours of standing (on line outside the venue and then up near the stage) is history as soon as the main act comes on, and the rest of the fans up front are generally totally into the set as well. I don't imagine they're as much fun toward the back of the venue, but I really wouldn't know.

That said, there are a number of artists like OtR and Cowboy Junkies I prefer to watch sitting down.

It looks like the Guster co-billing was too much for Ray. All the local shows here next month do not have Ray on them. It look like Ray will be in the UK next month.

Ah well. "It's a shame about Ray."

Till the Sun Turns Black got a less than substantive and instead pompously cold review from Christian Hoard in the Sept 2, 2006 issue of Rolling Stone. What a pity that this reviewer, who gets his thoughts published in RS, gets to carry on like a junior high schoolboy craving the spotlight for attention himself without proving his ability to hone an objective critique.

If any of you apples get a chance to hear this new CD, I'd be interested in hearing your opinions. Thanks.

I'm digging it. I picked it up on my lunch hour yesterday and I think it's lovely. A little more toned down than Trouble, softer. The songs are beautiful and the lyrics are as badass as his first cd. He sounds so soothing.

Be Here Now and Barfly are the standout tracks to my ears right now. I'd only been reading positive things about this album until your mention of the RS review, which I'm gonna hunt down after I hit add reply.

If you're a fan, get the new one.