Anyone else see this yet?

I thought it was a beautiful movie. It was just really well done. I totally see why it has so many nominations.

I was very impressed with Heath Ledger. He nailed that character. That one really surprised me, but not as much as Michelle Williams. Who would've known that somebody from Dawson's Creek could actually act? huh.

Lee did an outstanding job all the way around. I think this is a nice recovery from The Hulk. He really captured the scenery in the movie as if it were a character in and of itself.

The only complaint with Ledger, is that there were multiple times when I couldn't understand him. I realize that this was a part of the quiet, mumbley cowboy, but I still thought that I was missing something important when all I heard was Charlie Brown's teacher in a lower pitch. "Wah wah wah wah wah....wah wah wah wah."

Actually, other than the mumble, the only other thing I would change was...

*****Spoiler*****

when Ennis was on the phone with Lureen at the end, I thought they should've shown more of the beating. I know that sounds odd, but I feel like it could've tugged more at the heart if they would've shown a bit more. Like...I wish that there would have been more flashes to it....the three guys talking about it, finding Jack, the surprised look on his face, etc. With that being one of the main reasons that this was such a tragic love story, I just thought it could've been a little longer.

It wasn't enough to ruin the movie for me by any means.

Have you seen it? What did you think?

Haven't seen it yet, so I skipped the spoiler part. I have, however, read Proulx's short story and am anxious to see how it was converted to screen.

Cher

Good, because this is a typical device employed by E. Annie Proulx, who authored the story originally. You come to expect it from her. I can't wait to see it, actually. I also skipped the spoiler. Maybe this weekend we'll get to see it.

Can't even get it around here. Its so unfair.

I was slightly disappointed by this film. My fear was that the whole Brokeback thing was political hype. But I didn't want to assume that, so I saw the film really hoping to be impressed. Well, I just wasn't. Other than amazing, top-notch performances by Ledger and Gyllenhaal, it was rather blah. I personally believe the only reason it's gotten so much press-hype-nominations, etc. is due to the subject matter. In short, I think it's very well don propaganda. I don't [size=4]mean that propaganda is always a bad thing...but it should be recognized as such when it's there.

Anyway...I'm rambling incoherently...much like Ennis del Mar.

Oh yeah...spoiler alert[size=7][b]

I think the reason they didn't show the beating more was because there was some question as to if there really was a beating. The short story underscores the question a bit better I think. In it, it is never really determined if he was murdered or not. But then again, given the tone of the film and the whole "film as propaganda" idea, I could see where Lee might make the decision to present it as a murder.

SPOILER



ahh...i haven't read the story, but that makes more sense. even as a question, i think that the hypothetical could've been a bit more dramatic. my heartstrings were pulled, but they could've been yanked.

i thought the film was so very beautiful, and was nervous going in because of all of the stuff i heard about it already. (though i stayed away from janelle's spoiler!) near the end, i wanted to cry, but ennis' pent-up emotions were being channeled into me and i couldn't do it.

on a total girl note, mmmmm jake gyllenhaal. mm.
on a different total girl note -- man! jakey's wife (anne hathaway?) got the short end of the stick on looking good in the film. michelle williams (who has a beautiful interview in a recent entertainment weekly, btw) looks so pretty in the film, while anne's character has outrageous hair, in every scene! cracked me up.




***spoiler***

i haven't read the story either, but the thought crossed my mind that perhaps the beating didn't occur. i wondered why i thought that...

As one who has read the short story and the spoilers but probably won't get to see the movie until it's out on DVD,



I'm not surprised to learn that Lee took the path he did. However, I want to say that Jack's death in the short story broke my heart, and the way I read it, he wasn't beaten to death. It was heartbreaking just the same.

Cher

((((Spoiler:))))

I listened to this short story on Audio CD from my library and really enjoyed it. It was way too short, though. It was so sad.
In the story it's only in Ennis' mind that Jack was murderd rather than accidentally killed. It's not clear which. I somehow think it was accidental and Ennis presumed it was murder because of his guilt.

The funny thing is, I was imagining the two main characters as Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal due to all the media hype.
..except I put the face of Heath on Jack and the face of Jake on Ennis.

When I see the movie I'll have to rearrange my mind.

You're right, Trudes, it's been a while since I read the story, Ennis did think murder. I think it went back to the story Jack told of his father, remember that? I had them in mind the way you did, and I still do. Go figure, huh?

Cher

I probably wait for the video, what with 2 screens in a 400,000 person town and all. But one thing I can't get over is Eric Cartman talking about "Gay cowboys eating pudding" in a reference to indie films.

I'm soooooo eleven years old sometimes!

Anyone remember the movie Jeffrey? Great flick.

**** SPOILERS ****

There were moments in this film that really hit me ... but now, a couple of days after having seen it, I'm thinking that it didn't grab me quite as much as I thought it might. And I'm not sure why, really.

I understand what Janelle is saying, regarding more could have been shown regarding Jack's beating to get more of an emotional response out of it — though I disagree about wanting to see any more of it. I do find myself wanting to know what really happened, and given Jack's wife's response, I honestly couldn't tell; she seemed so cold about it all. (Apparently Jack was involved with Randall; did their wives find out? Was a hit put on Jack? And didn't Jack tell Ennis he was involved with Randall's wife??!)

Personally, I think the brevity of the scene reflects the immediate "fleeting thought" that Ennis must've had when he imagined how Jack might have gotten the fatal injuries his wife was describing.

Overall, I think I might have had a little difficulty with the film's pacing. At times it seemed excruciatingly slow ... but then, I still felt like the "romance" between Ennis and Jack was lacking, somehow, in development. Or maybe it was missing some kind of spark or something (or maybe it was there, and I just missed it, who knows).

Looking forward to more discussion on this film ...

: )

*edited to write "Jack" (the character) where I had previously written "Jake" (the actor)*

***SAME SPOILERS***


i could be wrong, but i thought jack told ennis he was involved with randall. no? i don't recall.

i guess the idea of it being a fleeting thought makes more sense in the brevity.

yeah, i can understand the spark issues. it would've been nice had they included more. i doubt that one could ever see sparks on ennis. he just doesn't seen the sparky type. i think that jack could've used a little more fire.

still loved it, though.

(((SPOILER)))

I have been reading the spoilers in this thread because having read the book (the audiobook was unabridged) I figured it wouldn't spoil the film.
I am gathering that the film explored a lot more of the wives characters than the book did. In the book, they had very little impact on the story IMO.
I am presuming the film embellished the story and maybe 'Hollywoodized' a simple short story.
Did the film go into detail about Jack's father or the relationship between Jack and his parents?

I need to wait for the DVD but I'm anxious to see it.

I thought Michelle Williams' and Anne Hathaway's performances as Ennis' and Jack's wives, respectively, added to the film -- especially Williams as Alma, who seemed (relatively) content with her life with Ennis and the girls (one of them named Alma Jr., which cracked me up throughout the film!!), but also appeared to want NOT to be stuck on a ranch. She also seemed resigned to "this is how my life is" until she saw Ennis kissing Jack -- but then apparently waited years to do anything about it.

I also had a continuity issue with the film: Ennis and Alma get divorced, and later, Ennis is having a holiday dinner with Alma, the girls and some other guy. It is during this scene that Alma confronts Ennis about his non-fishing "fishing trips" with Jack. I wondered why this scene didn't take place while they were still married?

Janelle is right about Miss Hathaway's hair! I couldn't figure her out: At times, she seemed content to let her father call all the shots, but then she also seemed happy when Jack stepped up and took control of the TV AND the turkey at their holiday dinner.

As for Jack and his father:

I don't recall what Jack said about his parents, but at the end, it's apparent that his father has some issues with him, probably has had his entire life, I'm assuming over the fact that Jack is gay. Meanwhile, the mom seems to have a greater understanding (acceptance) of her son.

Y'know...my opinion on this...and please don't take this as some kind of moral/political statement, cause it ain't...I dont' think there was what I would call a romance. I think it was an obsession on one end and a sexual fling on the other. That opinion is certainly open to discussion and refinement, but it is the sense I got from both the short story and the film.

This cracked me up!

Well, DUH. I mean, isn't that what the movie was about? Oh! You mean his own character, got it.



:: SNORT ::

Please carry on....

i'll see your snort, and raise you a snort. how did i miss that?

::snort::

Saw this last night. Loved the actors and I did like the movie but didn't get out of it what a whole bunch of other people (critics/academy) seem to be getting. It was good, and beautifully shot, but I'm not getting what exactly is causing all the award-ish attention, especially as it keeps sweeping up the nods. Acting awards, sure, I get it. But all the awards for the movie itself I'm not getting.


********SPOILERS*********

Thought Heath was great - I didn't see him as viewing what he and Jack had as a sexual fling though(validated to me out of Jack's death). I believe he felt exactly what Jack felt. I saw it as he couldn't and wouldn't accept it outside of his self. Where Jack felt what he felt and wanted to express it to Ennis whenever he could (unrealistic, for lack of better word), Ennis was never 'ok' with it (realistic, again, for lack of better word), so to speak. It was something that could never be to Ennis. How Jack and Jack's death affected him from the moment he walked into Jack's room to the end of the movie was heartbreaking to me.

Jake was also great. I don't have a lot to say about why I think so, though. I just think so. Heh.

I'm not surprised by Michelle Williams (Imaginary Heroes, If These Walls Could Talk 2, United States of Leland.. I'll stop there). And I'm not surprised by her holding in what she saw for all those years. It was the 60's... they were cowboys... in a heart of cowboy country... She was freaked the F out, and played that well.

What I am surprised by is the attention Anne Hathaway's not getting compared to her 3 co-stars. I thought she was fantastic. I say 'fantastic' because, well, I've never really liked her as an actress - I never gave her much acting credit. She reminds me of an gawky, awkward 12 year old girl who's sometimes kinda cute, in pictures. But man, bad hair 'n all, she was all kinds of bangup as Lureen! I've always been kinda fascinated with actors who can pull off facial and emotional acting when the only thing in the scene is them holding a phone to their ear and the shots between her and Heath's conversation were just.. dude. So, sorry Anne, for knockin' on ya before... good job, good job.

I had a hard time deciphering Jack's parents. Is that just how it was then and just how they were as people, or did they 'know' or 'think' anything...? That wouldn't have been something you easily assume about your son back then in that kind of life, you know? Unless he showed signs growing up, but we saw nothing of how he grew up.

I also understand and agree with the 'spark issue', or lack thereof, but if we picked up on more sparks it would have had to have been visual, acted out facially/physically/more emotionally, which would have made a spark apparent to those around them in the movie, too. Again, 60's, cowboys, the cowboy way - major unacceptable, yo.

So yeah, great acting, great backdrop, good (not great) movie.

**** MORE SPOILERS (OF COURSE) ****



Ennis' reaction to Jack's death was heartbreaking; obviously, this was his "one true love." To me, it also tied back to his completely unexpected emotional reaction the first time he and Jack parted, when they were almost certain they would never see each other again.

As for Jack's parents, I thought his dad seemed to know, and I KNOW his mom knew (moms ALWAYS know ... I think?) ... which brings up sort of non-related-yet-related revelation I had the other day when I was thinking about this film: How about the significance of their shirts, somewhat hidden in the back of Jack's closet??! I mean, I was completely aware of the smell of someone you love (on their clothing) and the blood, but the fact that Ennis found the shirts where they were ... and then placed them in his own closet ... sorta hit me in the gut, somehow.

And regarding the spark: Maybe the spark I was looking for would have been in the form of intimacy, i.e. a really sensual -- and not necessarily graphic -- scene between Jack and Ennis. Their only real "sex scene" was far too quick to be considered sensual, and even in the quasi-cuddling scenes (I think there were two -- one in the tent and another in a hotel room), SOMETHING is missing. Yes, I know they (or at least Ennis) felt they had to hide their true feelings from others, but together, especially after all the time they had and would spend apart, I just wanted to see more of what they showed each other in their "first kiss" after being reunited (the one Alma saw).

(((SPOILER)))
I am reading this thread even though I haven't seen the movie because I read the short story and I'm really looking forward to seeing it....I'm sort of teasing myself.
The story also left me with some heartbreaking moments. I also was touched at the first parting and the unexpected emotion. I know the feeling of smelling someone's clothes and having it break your heart.
But, I also found the story to be missing something. It was not enough. I have a feeling the movie will not be enough either.
I guess that is the hook that keeps me thinking about the story...it left me hungry rather than satisfied.
I really want to love this movie.
I always seem to be drawn to forbidden love stories.

Well, I FINALLY got to see this movie. I want to write more but I don't have time right now.
I will write tomorrow, but for now I'll just say I LOVED IT...and I'm going to watch it again in a few days. I need to own this movie.

I watched it last week, it was good, but I was expecting more from what all my friends were saying about it. Sometimes hype works in a negative way.

I realize this may be a dead topic for those who saw this so many months ago, but maybe some are just watching it now on DVD.
Some thoughts after viewing the movie and comparison to short story:

((((SPOILER))))

I loved this movie in part because it made me so angry and so sad.
When a movie can affect me in a way that is not 'ho-hum' I like it.
I liked Jack Twist and I felt for him deeply. He seemed more in touch with himself but was restricted by the feelings of Ennis.
I liked Ennis but I wanted to shake him so badly.
I also thought he was hard to understand for his mumbling, too.
I wanted him to release those emotions that were buried really deep in him to behave in a way that was expected of him.
Re: his true passion...he kept denying it, his responsibilities...he didn't seem to have the energy to confront and fix them, his fearand his shame...it imprisoned him.
I felt very sorry for him at the end when he took Jack's bloody shirt and clung to it.
Question: Did Jack's mom give him some ashes to spread on BBM? I thought so but I wasn't clear.

It seems this was a story of regret. Ennis was left with memories and a distant relationship with his daughter to comfort him in his older years. He had imagined that Jack had been murdered, though I don't think that was necessarily the case as there was no friends who were witness.
The beating I thought was a flashback. His dad had described to him what had happend to the man whose body he was shown. I would have to rewatch to see if it was Jack in the beating scene...Anyone know?
His dad showing him and his brother that body was I thought one of the things that kept him imprisoned in his dutiful mind.
I think this movie could have been about any forbidden love...not necessarily two men.
The storyline reminded me of The Age of Innocence. I wanted to shake Daniel Day Lewis in that flick, as well.
Parenting is such a crucial job. How predjudice and guilt learned at an early age can in fact ruin an adult's life...it's mindboggling.

I tend to agree with this statement in general. Sometimes, if I am looking TOO forward to something, I end up being disappointed ... and this does is not necessarily limited to movies!

: )

More on BBM in a while.

I wrote a review-type thing for the movie for SoMA Review... you can read it here if you're interested!

It was originally just a blog post but it ended up working out to get it republished in SoMA.

:-)

Katherine,
I read and enjoyed your review and agree with you.
Also, I think it's strange that there is so much violence and killing and horrific and despicable acts of torture depicted in movies these days, yet so many would rather selectively choose to complain about and deride this movie about love and feelings and heartache.
Yes, I did feel sorry for Alma. She was an innocent victim. Another casualty of someone (Ennis) not being honestly in touch with themselves and others. I think he did love her, but his passion was Jack. I wish he could have been honest with her in the beginning.

I just finished watching Brokeback Mountain for the first time. I read the book months ago before the movie was released and loved it.

Katherine, many thanks for a wonderful review. I, too, came away terribly saddened by the movie. I've long said that love sometimes is much more full of sadness than gladness. Not that it's a bad thing just that it's sure not all sunshine and roses for everyone.

I hope you don't mind my quoting you here:

"I knew that if I saw “Brokeback Mountain” I would end up on a soapbox. And here I am. And it's just too beautiful, too good of a movie to be paraded around on a million different soapboxes. At the same time, it's just a movie, just a story. The real tragedy is that the love between gay and lesbian couples in real life is politicized, day in and day out. The Oscars buzz will disintegrate and “Brokeback Mountain” will fade into a muted memory of Movies that Ticked People Off (alongside “The Last Temptation of Christ”). In real life, gay and lesbian persons still won't be treated with tender respect and understanding."

IMHO, what you said here is what we all should keep in mind. Thanks for expressing it so well.

Cher

can't see it. homophobic. not a fan of cowboys either.

It was good... but too long... it could have been a short film based on the short story... not the 135 minute film based on the short story. Oh, and it's not a gay cowboy movie, it's really a bi-cowboy movie... the press got it all wrong.

Great shots of sky. Ang Lee knows how to shoot sky. I'm very glad that the Hulk wasn't leaping through it. 'Cuz that was a dumb Ang Lee movie. Heath Ledger is fantastic as "the guy who could talk without moving his mouth." He should have been a ventriloquist.

Major problem... um... the gay sex was unrealistic. How the hell would/could the humping have occurred after 3 seconds of kissing, no foreplay, and all quick like that? The last time I heard, the anus doesn't have self-lubricating technology. Also, Jake's handlebar mustache "as he aged" was silly looking. It sucked how his life ended, regardless of my mustache issues with him.

Other than that, it was a good movie. Great love story, major drama - shall we say.

~fff - np: john zorn - filmworks x: in the mirror of maya deren

I pretty much agree with everything you just said. Especially about sky.

Yeah, well, I watched it again tonight and have to take-back my 2-year old, first view opinion.
I'm an eternity away from being alone when I say that Heath Ledger's death stunned me and saddened me greatly. I would have seen this again eventually but I think I ended up needing to see it sooner after Daniel Day Lewis' acceptance speech at the SAG awards.

This is part of it:

You know, for as long as I can remember, the thing that gave me a sense of wonderment, of renewal, the thing that teased me with the question, how is such a thing possible, and then dare you to go back into the arena of one more time, with longing and self-doubt, jostling in the balance. It’s always been the work of other actors, and there are many actors in this room tonight, including my fellow nominees who have given that sense of regeneration and… Heath Ledger gave it to me. ...in Brokeback Mountain, he was unique, he was perfect. And that scene in the trailer at the end of the film is as moving as anything that I think I’ve ever seen.


Seeing this again tonight felt like there was so much subtle undercurrent I just looked over or didn't bother to notice the first time I saw it. I didn't look away, didn't pause it to get up and stretch and do an "internet intermission", I didn't even get up to pee. I just watched, and was totally absorbed in it. Honestly, still being in 'moved' mode, I think seeing it again after the die-down of all the Hoo-Hah, after the buzz and award whispers... seeing it again in the middle of the many unrented "older" titles in the B-section in the video store did more for how I saw it than the impact of Heath's death. There were 2-3x during the movie where'd I'd suddenly think "he's gone.", I thought it would happen a lot more than that. So, two years later the loss of the Best Picture Oscar still doesn't bother me (Ellen Burstyn's loss to Julia Roberts way too many years ago, that bothers me... but whatever). But, I do take back my original glib-like reaction to what I think is an incredibly beautiful, beautiful film and a few shame-on-me's for not seeing then what was totally obvious to me tonight. I can see this as a movie I'll end up renting every couple of years or so.

I don't remember seeing this scene that way when I saw it the first time. Tonight, that scene tore me up.




Know what gutted me with this? The close-up of the postcard of Brokeback Mountain pinned above the shirts on the closet door, that it's crooked and you see just a little bit of his thumb straightening the card... *gah* Bawling like a sissy girl, I was...

Michelle - it's the same for me each and every time I watch this film. I made it through the movie without boo-hooing until that final scene. The utter sadness of his life just broke my heart. EVERYONE should experience a love like that one time in his/her life. Heath portrayed the sadness perfectly IMO.

Cher