I am looking for suggestions for a good, fairly inexpensive wine, that I can most likely buy locally. (ie, not something only available in your area)

Thanks

I love the Estancia Cab (~$11.99). Columbia Crest Merlot (~$8.99), the most drinkable inexpensive wine (for folks with a "non-sophisticated" palatte) is Fetzer Valley Oak (used to be Eagle's Peak) Merlot (~$6.99) ... make sure you get the Merlot though, the others can be risky.

Hope that helps and you weren't thinking white. If you were ... can't help ya there!

Actually I don't really have a preferance. I am just going to take these suggestions and give a couple a try.

Thanks Fred!

Well, wine is a pretty broad category, as is price.

As Fred noted above, do you like red or white? Dry or sweet?

What do you consider 'inexpensive' ?

Last year Trader Joe's Charles Shaw Chardonnay won an award, and that is a $2.99 bottle of wine. (I think it is even $1.99 in California, hence it's nickname "two buck Chuck.") My spouse and I drink that as well as Yellowtail's Chardonnay (usually about $5) amoung others.

Matt Q

Yep, Matt's right. I hear good things about Yellowtail, but my GF -- who knows her stuff -- doesn't care for it. I also am partial, just FYI to the drier reds. I do quite enjoy Chilean wines as well ... those tend to run pretty inexpensive too.

Any idea on what the wine will accompany?

Merlot is too light for my taste. My home staple now that I'm a wino is Toro y Concha Frontera Cabernet/Merlot (85/15) blend from Chile. I think it's pretty widely available. At $10 or so for a 1.5L bottle, it's a great deal.

Concha y Toro is precisely what I was thinking ... that Cab/Merlot is pretty spiffy!

It's actually a gift, I was thinking $8 to $10 a bottle, so it looks like I should not have a problem with this. I have never been a wine drinker so I don't honestly know the differances. Feel free to educate me there as well

$8-10 a bottle for a gift, eh?

Presumably you are getting it for a wine drinker, then.

One of the biggest mistakes (IMO) many non wine drinking types make is that they buy some crazy fruity thing like White Zinfandel. While I am sure there are loads of wonderful people that drink such concoctions, I don't know any of them. Go with a rich, traditional wine. Think Chardonnay, Viognier, or Sauv Blanc for whites. Zin, Cab Sav, Syrah, or Pinot Noir for reds.

I rad a cross a Smoking Loon Viognier the other day that was pretty good for $9 - even though I lean toward Chadonnay. I also really like a big Zinfandel - old vines if you can afford it. Good luck.

Matt Q

Not sure how to take this... Is $8-$10 a bottle a good gift or a bad gift?

Ah, White Zinfandel ... wine for people who hate wine. Don't be fooled, though, by Red Zins, which are really tasty. Stay away from White Zin, Stiv, if you're buying for a wine drinker.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do the Estancia Cabernet if it's in your range ... it's a solid, respectible dry red.

Oh, and Stiv, I don't believe I've ever paid more than $14.99 for a bottle of wine. Champagne is different, but now I tend to stick with the Spanish Cordon Negro in the black bottle: ~$12.00 and really tasty!

So under ten bucks is realistic. I would hit Krogers and check out the sales!

You can find some great wines here:

http://www.worldmarket.com/catalog/section...egoryId=1100185

these are all pretty nice and in the $10-15 range;

oh, ditto. especially that shiraz!

And when you pop the corks, they play The Godfather theme!

Ok...going shopping tonight...I'll see what I can find.

Thanks everyone!

Stivmc,

Wine is like music. Everybody's taste is different. IMO, it's hard to get a "good" bottle of wine for that price. I'm not saying you can't do it, I personally like Big House Red which is in that price range, has a screw top, and is produced in California. I would say it's very drinkable, but "good" is usually reserved for wines $20 and up. And some of them go way up!

Is the person you are buying it for a casual wine drinker or do they have a "collection" no matter how small or how it's stored? Do they have any preferences? Some people do not like the oakey aftertaste in Cabs and Merlots. Others don't like sweet fruity wines (they remind me of drinking perfume...ack!) And to make a bold generalization, men tend to like dry reds, while women tend to like fruitier sweeter wines...please note that this is my opinion and your mileage may vary...

I have been a Cab/Merlot drinker for years, but recently because a friend of mine has a cellar and collects Pinot Noir and because of the movie Sideways, I have been tying out Pinot's which are certainly drinkable and without the tannins. It's a lighter and more fragile wine, but very smooth. Merlots tend to be smoother than Cabs unless aged properly.

For white wine drinkers, I usually suggest Caymus Conundrum. It's priced around $25 a bottle but is very drinkable, even for people like Keith and I who like heavier wines. However, I will caution you that once you taste this wine, other whites may pale in comparison... This year's vintage is being offered in a screw top bottle for the first time. That used to be a bad omen and it certainly would be on a Cabernet, but for wines that are meant to be drank in the year they are purchased, a screw top keeps the wines fresher than a cork if you don't drink the whole bottle at one setting. With wine becoming more popular in America cork is starting to become more scarce, especially for good quality cork. So you will probably see more and more everyday table wines with screw tops. Conundrum is one of the few white's that I will drink. Caymus' Cabernet Savignon is considered one of the really good wines. Prices are usually well over $100 a bottle.

A few of $20 range red wines that I like are Justin Merlot, Peachy Canyon Merlot, Lawrence J Bargetto Merlot, and even Kendall-Jackson Merlot is not bad. For around $30, Swanson has a nice merlot. Decent Cabs tend to be more, but Cabs are generally meant to be aged longer. Jordan, if I remember correctly, doesn't release their cabs for 4 years after the vintage... However, they start in the $40's. They were my favoite back in the days when you could get them for $25! If you're going to pay $40, there's a whole gambit of interesting wines to choose from.

California wines tend to be pricey. You might consider Australian wines which have that exotic ambience going for them. I'm not big on Yellowtail personally, but I have used it to cook with... I've never drank Chilean wines, but maybe I'll investigate them now? Anyway, where I'm heading is Oregon. You can get some very drinkable wines for half the cost of California wines and without paying the import taxes for European wines.

BTW, if you really want to splurge and try something interesting and you like drier red wines, Cloud View is awesome. And Justin Isoceles is excellent! I also have a few even more very interesting reds, but they still have the cork in them...well, except a few Jordan Cabs. But they were getting dangerously close to the magic 20 year anniversary, so I forced myself to savor the past...salut!

Skoegahom...

WOW! Thanks. I honestly don't have a really good grasp of what the recipients tastes are because I have never discussed it with them.

Which is why I am keeping it in the mid price range as much as possible.

did someone say wine???

my vote goes for the Big House Red (one of my favorites) not only is it good, the label is awesome. and i must admit sometimes i pick a wine based on the cool label. ok, not just sometimes.

I didn't pick anything up last night, but did go to the Liquor Barn. Boy are there alot of wine options to choose from.

Going to have to re-read your suggestions and go back next week.

Nice to have you back, Rach.

Stiv, since you're buying this as a gift, I would disregard my advice on the Concha y Toro. Unless it's for a friend to whom you long to say"This is how little I think of you!" It's basically the least expensive red wine I consider drinkable, but for a gift I would definitely spring for something in the $10-15 range per 750ml bottle where there are lots of good choices. I'm partial to a nice Shiraz (aka Syrah) for that price myself -- Rosemount Diamond Shiraz from Australia is one that I really like.

thanks! all you had to do was say the magic word (wine).

i love getting wine at Cost Plus World Market because they have a lot of good, mostly affordable wines and you can pick up other gifty things to go with it. if you have one of these in your area i would suggest going there.

Yep, yep, yep. The link I posted above is for Cost Plus World Market, and you can locate stores on that site.

Keith, I don't know much about Australian wines and Shiraz's. Can you educate me/us? I have tasted the Yellow Tail and ended up using it to cook with... I have had petite syrah's before, which I think are supoosed to be good with bar-b-que? I hear that the Margret River region (SW Australia) is the region you want to look for like Napa Valley in CA, but that's all I really know...

I was all excited about checking out your Concha suggestion. Should I still check it out?

Skoegahom...

Here you go. There are some very nice California Shirazes too, but they tend to be more expensive.

Let me put it this way... the Cocha y Toro Cab/Merlot blend is a step below Yellowtail Shiraz.

If I were to go back to school again, I would seriously consider getting a wine certificate.

I find it's easier having a brother-in-law who's the regional sales manager for a wine distributor. Besides good advice, I get a case of assorted varietals for Christmas and my birthday every year.

Margarita and I shared a lovely 2002 Cab Blanc over toasted buns with cheese, mustard, ketchup, garlic power, and MorningStar not dogs.

mmm... toasty...
~fff

I've worked with wine from about every angle imaginable: collector, server, Wine Cosultant for the nation's largest wine retailer, and lately, wholesale.

I probably drink (on average) a bottle of wine per night (which isn't a lot...it just seems like a lot to Americans...if I told you I drank 3 Diet Cokes everyday you'd think it normal, and they're waaaay worse). My tastes range all over the map, and there really isn't a category of wine where I don't enjoy at least something. If you held a gun to my head and made me choose, I'd probably go with Southern French reds (e.g. Cotes du Languedoc, Minervois, Corbierres, etc) as my overall favorite.

That said, I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above author and say that $10 is a perfectly reasonable price range for getting adequate-good wine. Sometimes even great wine.

Price is often an indicator of quality, but not always, and (I'd say) not even most of the time. Example:

The other night I drank a bottle of 2003 Chante Cigale Chateauneuf de Pape with a good friend. It cost me just under $20 and garnered a score of 94 from Wine Advocate. Another 94 WA bottle of wine in my store would be 1998 Gaja Barbaresco. It costs $195/bottle. Same score. Same enjoyablility. $175 more.

Now of course that Gaja is from a much smaller production, a much more famous, "cultish" producer, and will probably age about twice as long as my little Rhone red. But if your gift recipient is not some serious collector, then they're probably going to drink the bottle you give them in the immediate future. In that case, it's not only more cost-effective to go with the inexpensive bottle, it's preferable. That $195 bottle needs (at least) two or three more years to reach expected maturity, while the Chante Cigale is ready right now (though it could stand up to 7 or 8 years in the cellar).

As a Wine Cosultant for Total Wine, I get asked literally every day to give suggestions for wine. And this time of year, suggestions for a gift bottle from a customer who doesn't know a whole lot about wine themselves are a common request to say the least. My suggestion, stiv, is to go to your nearest retailer and find someone who seems to know their stuff. Tell them what your needs are, and take their suggestion. These people are (usually) paid to know what they're talking about, so I say take their advice.

Here, however, are a few bottles that have done the trick in the past for me:

$8, Monthaven Pinot Noir: good typicity for Central Coast fruit



$10, Angeline Cabernet: remarkable price:quality ratio, like a baby Jordan

$10, Bogle Old Vine Zinfandel: Jammy, ripe, and perfect for nearly all richly flavored cuisine

As for the whites, I agree with the assertion of Caymus Conundrum being worth all $25 it normally costs (though with my discount, I can get it for $15 ). But if you're looking for something a little less expensive, try getting something out of the ordinary. I often reccomend things like Dry Moscato (yes, I said DRY moscato), white Rioja, or even Rhone whites to people looking for a bottle of Chard to give as a gift. The way I figure, those new wines are ones that they probably wouldn't think to buy for themselves, and therefore make more memorable gifts. Again, ask the wine guy at your local retailer.

Oh, and Caymus Cabernets can be found for well under $100...but you're still looking at about $70 for the low end ('96 Caymus Cab

mini hj: Skoegahom, I'd check on those Jordans if I were you. Not every vintage has been age worthy. In fact, a lot of '97 is collapsing in the bottle. In the last few months, I've been lucky enough to test a '96, '94, and '92 from my friend's vertical, and I'd rate them as follows: 1.) '96, 2.) '94, 3.) '92. The 1996 is absolutely gorgeous right now, though it's probably peaking. The '94 (amazingly) is still super-tight and tannic. We decanted it an hour before drinking it, and it had just started to open up. The '92, sadly, is rapidly declining. Don't get me wrong, it was good. But it wasn't meant to wait 13 yrs. before drinking. If you really enjoy Jordan, go to some online auctions and see if you can track down that '96. Fuh-reaking AWE-some.

In closing, I'd like to point out that while this post is ludicrously long, I waited a good while before chiming in here. I wanted to hear what others had to say, and I know I can come off as sounding authoritative about this stuff sometimes. It's all about what you like, and you might read everything I say here and find something you like that contradicts everything I say. And if you do, I say salut!

Damn, Jame$.

That Bogle Zin is good tho!

But can it dunk like a baby Jordan?

I hear he was killer with the nerf b-ball set...
~fff

James,

Wow! How did you get that job? I'm looking for one you know... Thanks for the great info. I would love to hear more about the wines you like no matter the price.

BTW, when I lived in Chicago in '82-'84 I purchased several early Jordan's including a 1976 (their inagural year). I drank these years ago. However, I might have an '85 left...I think I saw it the other day thinking to myself did I really leave that back there? And rats, I have a '97, but no '96.

Where do you find information on when a wine is peaking? That seems like it would be information that you possibly bottle and sell?

Skoegahom...

Okay, here's a rapid-fire response:

-- I got the job basically through being in food-and-bev industry jobs for so long. you get to know people who know people, etc, etc.

-- Don't despair about your '97 Jordan. It's probably great. When I said a lot of '97s are collapsing, I meant the vintage in general. And I meant "a lot" in a relative sense. '97 was such an amazing year (in Napa), that some people got carried away and bought stuff up like it was going to last 100 years. Most of it is still great, but (like any appelation) not everyone produced classics. And (as you know) Jordan is an Alexander Valley (hence, Sonoma) wine. In short, "a lot" meant that given the fact that everything from the '97 California vintage was supposed to last forever (in some peoples minds), it seems like "a lot" of wines peaked early.


-- Lastly, info on when wine is peaking (or how long it will last, or when it will mature, etc) is an inexact science to say the least. An easy thing to do is subscribe to a wine journal (Spectator and Advocate being about the only two REALLY dependable ones). They do back-vintage tastings sometimes and report on them. Also, there are message boards for everything under the sun, wine included. A lot of my knowledge comes through the good fortune my job brings me, where I get to meet and talk with a lot of the winemakers. I told a guy once that the head winemaker at Caymus was on my speed-dial. He laughed, so I showed him my cell phone. He still didn't believe me, so we called him. He (the skeptic) was pretty psyched.

I guess the last thing would be that predicting the life of fine wine comes from tasting a lot of it. I know that sounds obvious, but the reason people like Georges Duboeuf can taste a wine and say, "this will be best in about 3 years" is because they know wines they've tasted in the past that tasted better in 3 years. Georges tastes (according to his own account) 40 wines everyday before lunch, and when you're that experienced (which I am NOT), you can be pretty accurate.

C'mon now James, we all know you just kept falling asleep at the keyboard after that 4th glass of wine! ;)

4 glasses? More like four bot...wait. Dammit.

revived.

Hmmm.... again? Getting a wine hankerin,' girlie?

Nah, it's just that when you're talkin' wine I'd say two threads are better than one, if you got 'em.


Although I have recently started trying different chardonnays. I used to not like it, more of a pinot grigio person in the white family. But not only do I now have a liking for the chard, I haven't enjoyed the last couple pinot grigios I got, and they were ones I liked before. I don't know, it's all so twilight zone-y.

[Just imagine the Spinners singing in the background...

Could it be I’m falling in love [With you baby]
Could it be I’m falling in love [Woo]
Could it be I’m falling in love
With you
With you
With you
With you]

Pelerin

I don't think I got it, when it comes to Pinot Noir, until I tasted this one.

Only 585 cases produced...

Just about anything put out by Bogle is pretty good stuff for the price range---but if you are a big time fan of a really incredible Zinfandel---see if you can get "Earthquake Zin" in your area ---it is a bit pricey---but man oh man--is it worth it and what an awesome Zin----the name fits the wine--it is a big red --15.9 percent Alcohol----and about $40 to $50 per bottle--but damn well worth it----a great special occassion wine----

I used to agree about Bogle, and still like a majority of what they produce...but they've been slipping. The Old Vine Zin has been plonk for a couple of vintages now--at least by their normally good standards. The Petit Sirah is still, I think, the best dollar-for-dollar value they have. To find a Petit Sirah worth a damn under $15 is nearly impossible, and theirs is usually about $8.

I thought Earthquake Zin was nice. I didn't think it was worth that much money, but new wineries typically jack their prices in the first few years b/c land costs in Cali continue to skyrocket. Stag's Leap Cabs (the appelation, not the winery), for example, average $50/btl.--regardless of quality, score, etc. My main gripe with the Earthquake wine is the same as I have for a lot of newer wines these days--packaging. Please, PLEASE stop the cutesy, over-the-top, often ironic labels. What compounds the problem is the fact that the description on the back of the bottle is often just as theatric as the label: "...are you ready for the Big One?" <---- from the Earthquake bottle.

How about: "Rich mouthfeel and concentrated brushfruit are balanced by well-structured tannins...." That tells me so much more. I don't know. I'll always be biased towards Old World wines (as they were my first love) and they tend to be pretty minimalistic (at least the ones not specifically produced for export).

Incidentally mpgarr, if you're paying $40 or $50 for that wine, you may want to try shopping online. I've never seen it retail in my market for more than $25.

My favorite Zins are produced by two of the most boring label-makers in Cali: Ridge and Sobon Estate.

Here's two faves:

Sobon ReZerve Zinfandel

and


Ridge Ponzo Vineyard Zinfandel



mpgarr makes a good point in bringing up the extra alcohol found in most red zins. Zinfandel has a substantially higher naturally occurring amount of sugar (or "brix" in fancy wine talk), so when there's more sugar, the yeast have more to eat, and when they eat more they produce more bi-products, and one of those bi-products is alkeehol. You can either stop fermentation short, and have a sweet wine (which is what most people do for "white" zin), or you can keep on fermenting and get 16% (or higher) monster zins. Luckily, well-grown Zin (look for hotter growing regions, esp. Amador County) will--in addition to its higher sugar content--also have more intense flavor concentration. This means, among other things, that the higher alcohol won't seem as "hot" and overpower the fruit characteristics.

One more interesting side-note, if you live in a larger market with good wine/liquor stores, look for a Southern Italian grape called Primitivo. It's the ancient cousin of Zinfandel, and actually is still identical to Zin in terms of DNA structure. Winegrowers swear it makes different wines if you grow it side by side with zin, but most horticulturalists will tell you it's the same thing.

I had an occasion to celebrate this evening. So I splurged on a bottle of Justin Isoceles. Although, I'm attempting to develop at palate for Pinot Noir (did I tell you I was fortunated enough to taste a William Selyem a couple weeks ago?) I have to admit that Justin makes a fine, fine wine. I believe it was Laura in the other thread that said something like I wish I made more money so I could drink Isoceles more often. I have to say that I completely and wholeheartedly agree.

Justin

James---Well I love Earthquake Zin but have not been able to find it lately---and I may have been wrong on the price---it may not have been in the range I had first said----sorry that you did not like it but then everyone has their individual tastes----

Actually though-for everyday purposes--I will stick with my Coppola Rosso at $9.99 a bottle---at that price--it is a great red---it pretty much goes with a lot of dishes-to my tastes it is strong enough to hold up enough to even heavier foods but not so bold as to overpower lighter dishes----and if I am eating something light like a broiled or sauted fish or seafood--I will go with something like a Vignoier anyhow---


If like some really nice French wines--see if you can find something produced by a young French winemaker named Nicholas Potel----he makes up some very nice, complex but subtle French reds such as "Echezeaux" and "Beau Site"--really nice but kind of hard to find---Frederick Wildman and Sons of New York bring his wines into the US and hopefully some distributor in your area can get his wines.

mmm yummy i love this pinot so much! i admit i wasnt a huge pinot fan until i started tasting the REALLY good ones which usually translates to more money.

for a good deal on some non-pinot reds i'd look for Adelaida Schoolhouse Red (about fourteen a bottle) Franco Merlot (ten bucks) Maipe Cabernet Sauvignon (ten bucks) Paul Hobbs makes some amazing reds from Argentina....Cocodrilo Cabernet Sauvignon and El Falino Malbec (both under twenty a bottle).

J. K. Carriere Pinot Noir 2005 Willamette Valley Newberg, Oregon

The following was pulled from their website. I couldn't begin to write a review like this, but I do enjoy reading them and then tasting the wine. For instance, do I taste Bing Cherry and green olive? What do I think of when I breath the essence of this wine? Quite often I find myself breathing the wine for quite some time before I actually taste the wine. The vapors of a good pinot clear my sinuses like Camphor, Ecalyptol and Menthol (the active ingredients in Vicks VapoRub), seriously. I like to imagine what I smell in a good wine, and then read the reviews, and then finally taste the wine. For some reason, this one reminded me of the smell of crisp bacon when I was breathing it. But when I finally got around to tasting it, I have to admit it was simply put, elegant, subtle and enveloping. I would have to have several more bottles before I could rank this wine on my all time favorites, but suffice it to say that I want to purchase more and give it the chance to compete. In other words, I really liked this Pinot Noir...and I agree with the reviewer below, this pinot is meant to be sipped during a long conversation with close friends or lovers... - Skoegahom...


Thesis: Elegance she is. And quite prepared to wipe the floor with you.

The Cliff Notes: Brilliant purple garnet with a dark dusty nose of Bing cherry, tobacco and green olive. A classically built Pinot noir of some heft showing condensed ripe cherry riding on a structurally significant core of acid and well-formed tannin. An elegant food wine, made more for time than for cocktail parties.

The Vintage: There are only a few places in the world where benchmark classic Pinot noir can be created. It requires long daylight, at least 110 days of grape hang-time, and a truly cool-climate growing region — Oregon, for example. In 2005, after a string of warm vintages, Oregon swung back to a cooler and more classic low-yielding vintage. We had to dance around a little rain at harvest, and more fruit would have been nice, but the grapes got what they needed. And subsequently, we got what we needed from the grapes: elegance.

Cases Produced: 735 cases

The Building of: Small-lot wild yeast fermentations, 100% barrel aged for 18 months: 9% new, 25% one-year, 47% two-year and 19% neutral oak. Bottled unfined and unfiltered in April of 2006.

Ageability: This wine is built. The well structured core of acid and tannin will allow it to climb in complexity through a minimum of five years and should give it the ability to while away another five before it fades from the plateau.

Alcohol: 13.75%
pH: 3.64

Vineyards: It was important to be on your viticultural game in 2005 and, if so, the story became one of miniscule yields pushing up quality. The old vines at Temperance Hill (25 years) delivered phenomenal acidity and were aided by excellent ripeness from Shea Vineyard (8 years), beautiful red fruit from Gemini Vineyard (14 years), and just a touch of structure from Anderson Family Vineyard (14 years). In contrast to recent years, the blend was fairly clear cut, and we believe it speaks of classic beauty.