Karin's writings still aren't back up, we can't talk about politics, AND we can't even drop a good F-bomb without being muted!

no, seriously, put Karin's writings back up already. the orange construction signs are starting to piss me off... the word "temporarily" can only be used for so long...

i agree, i want to read karin's writings, too.

but you know, drew's (and the other people's) hands are tied...especially if karin doesn't want her words to be read.

although why she wouldn't...i have no idea!

Personally, I dont' mind the "muting." One of the reasons I came here was because of the lack of what I consider to be offensive speech. If you want to use that kind of language in your home, have at it. Sorry, but I like the tone here. Same with politics. Another reason I frequent this place. I've read so much nonsense (and some good thoughts) regarding politics on other MB's, I was so glad to find a place like this.

And finally, what writings are you all talking about?

Have a good night!
J

Well, the site is effectively dying... It used to be three pages of new posts when I check in in the morning, now it's one. Mostly fluff.

Sad, really.

Patrik

Yeah and before long, things will really start to get good.

I think Karin not wanting her words to be read was a rumor started on this board. I don't know of any such pronouncement coming straight from her. not saying she doesn't feel this way, I just don't know of it firsthand.

Well, Chroma Key and Radiohead and Silverchair haven't had proper albums out in ages... but I'm doing the best I can with what I've got to work with...

Yeah, I agree with you... not. much. going. on. The religous and political threads usually turn into pie-throwing contests, but at least there would be deeper things talked about rather than "what button is on your hat" and "which way does your fly close" type posts. Even the "what are you listening to now" thread that I (CDH) started, I only check nowadays to see what Zayne's spinning...

Newton's 8th Law: Censorship causes boredom.

~fff

Why does this thread discourage me?..... I guess we all get out of it what we want... I find it an enjoyable place to visit. And I don't think it's dying. Maybe it's all in one's perspective. Maybe it is different here than before, but "dying"..... I think not.
Just my opinion...

i don't think it's dying either. yes, it has it's highs and lows. right now does kind of appear to be a low. there just isn't much "band action" going on, they are kind of in a lull touring, and they have no "new" music, so to speak, to talk about, etc. so i think a slowdown or maybe a higher percentage of posts in the "fluff" threads, since there is less music to be discussed, is to be expected. but, i'll be willing to bet you that it will spike again as we get closer to the CST, the christmas tour and taft show, because there will be a lot more "stuff" of common interest for us to discuss.

and while i realize that we all want and enjoy more from K&L, remember, this is their site. personally, i think they have been very open and giving to this place and to their fans and audience in general, far more than any artists that i know of. they have made a significant financial commitment to give us this place to communicate and they do get to decide what and how much of their music, art, craft and life that they want to share here. sometimes those decisions may be made for personal/private reasons, sometimes they may be business related (the "band" is also their "business", it is their livlihood, you know) or, which i personally think is the case, it could simply be time restraints on where they have to best place their time, energy, resources and/or priorites at any given point in time.

i do know that they both miss being here more, they have told me so. virtually, every time i have talked to karin recently she asks what's going on here ("is everyone behaving"), and talks about missing the place. also, she has told me that they are on dial-up at the farm (i think her quote was something like: we don't even have public sewerage, much less high speed internet), which i'm sure is one of the reasons that they haven't been around more to read and maybe react to some of the issues discussed. also, please understand, i'm not speaking for them (nor attempting to speak for them), this is just my opinion based on a couple of conversations with them.

so... as i stated, i know we all and would prefer more, no matter how much they are willing to give, we will probably still want more...but personally, i'm pretty content with what we've got.

just my 2 cents...

If you're offended by a simple word, you're too easily offended.

To be offended by an idea is understandable, but out of context, one word isn't any more offensive than any others.

Oh, sure ya can, you just have to be inventive about it. There's feck and fück, fùck, fûck, fúck, and fűck. Hope that helps.

Or just fuck.

~fff - np: silverchair - frogstomp

And to be didactic about what people find offensive is, well, offensive.

Heeeeey - how'd he do that?

I find that offensive.

these secrets and more are being kept in the cool corner of the orchard. come visit us sometime, sit around in a circle at Dan's feet, and learn as the guru shares deep spritual truths... or at least how to swear real good.

Is it the period at the end of it? Let me try ****.


Nope.

all I can say is, Steve Taylor was wrong...

It is. But so is getting offended by a single word.

Since I gave up, I feel a lot better...

~fff - np: silverchair - neon ballroom

offended by an idea...
hmm.

offended by the sound of letters connected in a certain sequence...
hmm.

being offended...
hmm.

what does it all mean?

Being offended is the logical conclusion of an inflated ego. We all suffer from it.

Patrik

Guess I should have been clearer about the term "offensive." All I mean is that society generally has certain rules of behaviour that we all (more or less) try to follow. This message board, being a sort of public forum, seems, to me at least, to be an inappropriate place for certain terms and subjects.

It's like, I would be less than enthused if someone were to walk up to my daughter and I and start dropping F-Bombs in normal conversation. I don't do it and I teach my daughters to not do it as well. And although I slip from time to time with my own speech, I seem to try harder to avoid it if I am in the company of folks I am not well acquianted with.

If we should not be so touchy about all this, then why not start dropping f-bombs at church, our friends wedding, at the birth of our baby, when we propose marriage to our girlfriends or when we are at a job interview (to be fair, maybe some do!)? The answer is because there are still some areas of life that ask us to exercise a little restraint and decorum. Seems that we could use a little more in other areas of life as well.

My humble opinion is that a public message board is one of those places.

Just my thoughts....

I've never been offended a day in my life, and I am offended that you would just assume that about me with such a blanket statement. hmff!

Ghostwriter...
apparantly you've never been to New York, nor do you know any Italians...

but seriously, this message board is not a wedding, a job interview, not a church service nor a marriage proposal or anything else so formal as all that. there aren't even any kids here (are there? are there children here? somebody please tell them to leave if so..). now, I'm not saying we should just let our conversations all go to bloody hell and start tallking about each other's private parts, but I think in the course of normal casual conversation among such a diverse crowd it's only natural that a little cussing would season the discussion now and again, or that someone would have an idea or two that doesn't quite mesh with the way we think the world ought to be. some of us may even choose to talk thus with a nice alkeeholic beverage in our hands, and that's sure to piss a few teetotallers off. and I've seen the way some of you girls dress in your avatar pictures...I even know what you are or aren't wearing while you sit there in front of your computer screens. for shame....
all I'm saying is that if you want to find something to be offended about, you'll find it, swearing or no, but I'm just wondering why anyone would want to look through those kinds of glasses. Patrick is right on there with the ego bit. but I don't think an overinflated ego is a good thing (I'm not saying YOU have one...but apparantly Patrick is. I think he was also talking about your mamma just a minute ago). more later...

I get what you're saying Brookd. We are a public gathering of people who are more or less acquainted. As much as it feels private because we are in our homes wearing God knows what... it is public.

And yes, my daughter and a few of her friends are members here. They understand that people will be people, but they also have been taught to show respect to people in public places (as well as privately if possible).

'k...... I'm off to find dinner......

I guess I don't see cussing and respect as antithetical. I don't feel disrespected if someone swears every other word around me, and so I guess it's a personal choice to feel that way - a lack of respect (or "offended") - by how others talk, private or public. People are people indeed.

how old is your daughter?

Personal choice or no (and regardless of whether one person feels that way), it seems that society has adopted the idea that it is disrespectful (or at least frowned upon) in certain circles. Again, I didn't make up the "rules" but rather have just observed them over my years. I've also noticed over the years that people will use words like f*ck very rarely around people that they respect or people that deserve respect. What is "commonly accepted behaviour" is not determined by what "I" feel is CAB...

Oh, and she's 17. I have four daughters ages 18, 17, 13 and 9. This is not me being 'overprotective' btw. I would feel the same way if she was not involved with the board.

And this is not me trying to necessarily "change" people's behaviour. Just makin' some observations. Thanks for being cool with the exchange of ideas...'
John

some people simply are offended by profane speaking. period. i think it is about what the language can imply and do, especially if you are not really ready to have that for whatever reason. I guess, like everything else, i see it as a spiritual issue.

so there we go again....

....don't really have much left to say. (right now).

I am saddened and inspired by the beautifully shared letter I recently read about a dog...

....don't really know why i am even posting... ...it's like impulse posting... ...and i think i could prove that others have it worse than i....

Brook... ...is this some new conspiracy to push conversation in a more "tit eh lay ting" and "in tell e ctual" (i only ****ed with those words because i was not sure how to spell check)

Calling DREW™, dude, why don't we have a spell checker.

well, i'll go now, and do something more interesting... ...pray

water? wine? well, right now, i want more food. eating for Jesus.

Too CPU-intensive. Plus, I don't think one is available for this system. Also, no one here has a problem with speeling.

This is a public message board. There have been parameters set by the owners of the board that are maintained by the mod as best as can be. Can folks figure out ways around those parameters should they choose? You betcha.

As for offensive, I'm not so sure just how offensive f*ck is now days. It is still my favorite word as it works in so many different situations. However, I try to refrain from its use in my everyday work world out of professional courtesy. So, when I visit certain sites, I like the fact that I can freely use it when and how I like. Back to how offensive the word itself is nowdays. This is what I heard out of the mouth of someone's teenage daughter this evening when she saw it was raining:

"Well, f*ck a red truck ... f*ck a red truck. It's f*cking raining out there." This was stated loudly and clearly in the lobby of her residence hall. Where was I? In my office getting ready to leave for the day. If you don't think the word is not a part of everyday vocabulary - just listen to what the kids are saying. Doesn't matter where they are or who's nearby. To them ist's just another word.

This is just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

Cher

More thoughts on blue language and it's use. I think John has hit it on the head when he speaks of respect, or the lack of. I do agree with him on that point. There are those who choose when and where they use it. Most often than not, respect is the reason why. Having said that, here's what I have observed in all these years (18) of working in residential life with teens and twenty-somethings. This group of students are much, much freer in what they say and how they conduct themselves. It doesn't, as I've already stated, seem to matter much where they are or who's around. It seems to correlate strongly with respect and RESPONSIBILITY neither of which they seem to be familiar with. Please don't think I'm placing blame. However, rules and regulations for most of them seem as alien as the grays that crashed in Roswell all those years ago. The way I look at my job now days is just not as one who is concerned for the health, safety and well-being of my residents but also as one who, hopefully, can help them learn a bit about respect and responsibility before they move on further into their adult lives.

Again, simply my thoughts.

Cher

Err... Right...


Meanwhile in the real world....


Patrik

I watch my swearing around certain people, and in certain circumstances, certainly, but regarding the people, it is not those whom I respect more but rather simply those whom I know would be offended by it. and if you think I have more respect for those who are offended by swearing, well boy howdy, I can tell you that's way off the mark, by about 180 degrees. I think Romans refers to those people as the "weaker brothers"... (actually, my respect of others rests on things entirely seperate from whether they swear or not. there are certainly people I respect a great deal who never swear. but they also tend to be people who aren't put off by swearing either)
with regards to certain events, the "properness" of speech applies to all speech. I wouldn't swear while asking a girl to marry me any more than I would tell her I'm having car troubles. just doesn't fit somehow.

"fuck a red truck" that's great!

How do you guys do the trademark symbol? I wish to show The Drew the proper respect when needed, but am unable to offer proper homage at my present intellectual level...

I see it generally as a habitual issue. Comfort zones and all that, what you're used to, ya know?

I do agree with ghostwriter that it's more acceptable in some places than others, though I would comment that it's appropriate here, I think, because the board is generally for adults, and because the atmosphere is laid back and casual.

for the TM in The DREW™ just type the tm with () around it and it will automatically do so.

I think this works for R® as well.

I agree with you on the base level anna, but again, everything boils down to spirituality with me.

also, brook's remark about respect and offending someone is spot on.

Nice discussion all... tone is much appreciated... I will say no more for now.

"you know my mind"

(I dunno, I just love that phrase)...
J

Well, I have something to add. When I was in the classroom working with high school students, I would not tolerate any swearing. Not so much because I felt offended, but because I wanted my students to be able to improve their abilities to communicate accurately. As a general rule, I feel that more often than not there are better/more accurate ways to convey one's thoughts than swearing. (This may seem uncharacteristic coming from a math teacher. Think of it more as a precision thing than a literary one, or perhaps, I am just querky.) I also believe that when one reserves the use of deletable expletives for rare occasions, they carry more significance and meaning than when they are a regular occurring part of dialogue. Obviously, that is my opinion. I don't have some hang up about hearing or reading it. It does start to bug me if I feel it is becoming gratuitous. I know everyone will have a different cutoff point for that. So please no talking, walking, or typing on eggshells around me.

The Drew™

cool...thanks MWMW

oh, I see how it is... Let's just pretend that Karin never HAD any writings up anywhere around here...

why? it seems that it's so much more fun to whine about them not being posted (and apparently, about everything else too).