so, my cousin david, who is 6 years older than me, got married this weekend. his bride was gorgeous. and my 6 and 3 year old cousins looked exceptionally handsome in their tuxedos. i especially enjoyed dancing to the chicken dance with joshua, the younger one. and gabe and i tore it up to jungle boogie. 'twas a fun time.

but it makes me wonder...in this age of marriages that are always falling apart, how do we ever really know if it will work? how much work should someone put into a marriage before throwing in the towel? i know that i don't ever want to get divorced, but i can only think of a handful of truly happily married couples (that have lasted more than ten years or so). my aunt and uncle are one example. my best friends parents are another.

and that's all i can think of.

do you know of couples that are still happily married, years down the line? and if you are one of those couples, what are you secrets?

i have been twice engaged, and i know that, had i married either of those boys, i would now be divorced. i think i was trying to force something to work that just wasn't right, because i liked the idea of being in love more than i actually was in love...how do you keep from falling into that trap as well?

thoughts? rants? anything?

I've only been married for a year (actually 11 months, and 12 days) but my feelings are that if you get married, you should only marry someone that you know you will be able to stay committed to.

Things may happen--arguments, fear, jealousy, even different forms of abuse and infidelity are all possibilities.

All of which are forgivable IMHO. So I don't think it's in so much who you marry, but who you are, and what you are committed to doing for the good of the relationship.

And if you can find someone that you love and respect who also feels this way, I think it will greatly reduce the possibility of all that other awful stuff happening along the way.

Did that make any sense?

Having the patience of a saint is key. Just ask my wife.

Seriously, I don't really know why Karen and I have lasted 29 years while a lot of our friends haven't. I think a big part of it is that we've both been willing to make some serious sacrifices so the other can be happy (I live on this wretched island so she can be near her close-knit family, she lets me off it several times a year to go see concerts with my friends). There are lots of times I wish she was into music and skiing, and I'm sure there are lots of times she wishes I was a normal middle-aged husband who watches TV most nights and does home improvement on the weekends. But we are who we are, so we enjoy the time we do spend together and we also pursue our individual interests. Besides, Karen married me when I was dirt poor and stood by me through a lot of very lean years while I went to college and grad school, and I will always love her for that. I know she's there for me when I really need her in sickness and in health etc., and that counts for a lot in this world. Despite my fondness for women in general and all my online lechery, there's really nobody else I ever want to be with (okay maybe Charlize Theron, just once). I hope she feels the same way about me, despite my snoring and her occasional dreams about Harrison Ford.

So I guess my advice is, be prepared to make some sacrifices for the sake of your spouse's happiness (really the true test of love IMO) and give them some room for the things they love besides you. Of course it's a two-way street, and personally I think divorce is a better option than staying in a marriage where one partner or the other is genuinely being exploited (as distinct from throwing in the towel at first encounter with serious conflict).

As far as knowing you've really found the right person (I also had a failed engagement), I suppose I just got lucky. I'm off to get some flowers on my way home...

keith, you are the cutest thing in the world.

seriously, though, how much sacrifice is *too* much sacrifice? there was no reason why i shouldn't have been allowed to listen to over the rhine while in my last relationship, nor should i have been *afraid* to have friendships with people of the opposite sex. it's frustrating to know that, i so wanted to have this work out, that i was willing to sacrifice myself.

so, how much do you sacrifice? i guess it is necessary to figure out what is REALLY important to me. you don't have to like otr or the other music i like, but don't prevent me from enjoying it. i'll do the same with you and sports...i don't like them, but i'll watch them with you occasionally. some things are absolutely non-negotiable, though, such as drug usage. *sigh*

there is just so much to think about, and it is scary. i think i'd fare better in the haunted houses.

Sorry Jessyka, I forgot the most important advice -- steer clear of controlling assholes.

know of any men who aren't?

maybe i *make* them crazy...my family has suggested that. of course, my problem is that i tend to ignore bright red flags in the beginning stages of the relationships. my first fiance's nickname (from my crew at kennywood) was SC for stalker chuck...BIG red flag there. *sigh*

i do! i do!

come visit and i'll introduce you!

oh jessyka... i have the same problem! ignoring red flags!
we're going to have a lot to talk about in dayton...

we'll be therapy for each other, i'm sure.

20 years this year for me... never divorced or re-married. Seems to me you have to have a compelling reason to keep the marriage intact (as politically incorrect as it may seem, the "vows" may be a good place to start). Many of the things that you may think compel you to marry (him/her) may fade over time. There has to be a deeper motivation. Also, I think the reasons people get married at 20-30 are much different than the reasons people stay married at 50-60. Also, I'm not entirely sure there is a way to be "sure." After all, there is another person involved in the decision.

*crickets*

Anyhoo...... yeah, so that'll be about it for now...

3 Weeks for me this Saturday!

I am sure it isn't always going to be the marital bliss I am feeling right now, but I have to say I feel like I am experiencing the best days of my life RIGHT NOW.

I too was engaged before I met THE GUY and I took my time with THE GUY. I think it was well worth it...

My parents are divorced...the key I see is to take time out of wherever you are in life to be together...the couples I know that are still together party together on a regular basis...it may be a night out, a night in, or a weekend away, but only time with each other will keep your relationship going.

I feel like time with him is what moved me to the point of wanting to be married, why would I cut that out now that we live together and are "busy"...it just doesn't make any sense.

congrats on three weeks of wedded bliss!

my parents are also divorced, and that scares me. i've heard the notion that if you want to know how your relationship will turn out, then you should look at your significant other's relationship. and i can see that in some respects...my two ex-fiances treated me in much the same way as their fathers treated their current wives.

i have noticed, though, a trend in my friends...since their parents have been divorced, they went through that heartache, and they don't ever want to put their children through that. so, maybe our generation will have some of the staying power the generation before didn't have.

i guess i shouldn't worry so much about finding the right person. i am finally trying to get my own life on track. but still, i worry. technically, i'm still young. but often, i don't feel young. especially when my two closest friends, who are both my age, have been married for three and six years.

*sigh* life sucks sometimes.

I don't think this can really be generalized. My parents divorced when I was 16, but it really should have happened much sooner. When they lived together, they were obviously unhappy and fought constantly, despite years of counseling (both religious and secular) and therapy. It was a pretty hostile environment to grow up in. I think the main reason they stayed married was for us kids, but all of us were glad when they finally called it quits. So while I think every marriage is worth working to preserve, divorce is not always the worst alternative in terms of heartache.

I feel like you are speaking with me...

I fear the bad things about my parents relationship(s) will creap up on me and I won't see them...

I fear my semi-ok relationships with my parents will affect my children...

I fear that at any moment this "wedded bliss" will explode into one huge mess...

I believe in life, love and peace...all which can be accomplished in a relationship...can I do it in mine????


You can make, we all can...I think we just have to be ready...

for many years, i haven't wanted to be married. lately, i'm changing my mind, and no, it has nothing to do with this new guy. (he ain't really all that.)

i want to be loved and to love; to know and be known. and i want the (false) security that marriage and marriage vows bring.

my ex and i always said we were "married in our hearts" and that we didn't need paper, didn't need the government, etc. and all that is true. i think it's about the false security of marriage that is drawing me in at the moment.

*sigh.

that's not a good reason to get married though, is it?

Well, for starters: I CAN'T marry my girlfriend. Not in this state.



But we will celebrate 15 years together next month ... and I am not altogether certain exactly why we have "lasted," except for the fact that we genuinely enjoy being around each other. And we enjoy our time spent apart "doing our own thing," too.

I think we both realized, early on, that relationships are a give-and-take thing. We have had to compromise, occasionally, along the way, but even the rare situations in which we have disagreed, we have tried to communicate, always, how we feel.

And I honestly believe that we both try to lift each other up, emotionally, rather than bring each other down.

Oh, and she is gorgeous and incredibly sexy! Plus she thinks I'm cute.



For the record: We both have parents who were divorced -- mine when I was in kindergarten, hers when she was in college. I was too young to realize, really, what was going on when my parents got a divorce, but I've always known that it was a possibility in any marriage. My girlfriend has said she wishes her parents had gotten divorced years before they finally did.

"Controlling assholes" are definitely NOT gender-specific; I have known women who fall under this category, too.



What came to mind when I read your quote, Jessyka, about ignoring red flags, is a quote my friend Patti gave me, from Maya Angelou: "When someone tells you who they are, believe them ... the first time."

(Hope I got the wording right. I'm too tired/lazy to google!)

do you live together, di?




i love being cute too.

No. We've thought about it and talked about it, but I think we've both agreed we like having our own places. (Mostly: Her dog is afraid of my kitty cat!)

LMAO

that sounds like my dog and the kitten who lives here.

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