Haven't noticed anyone mention this on here (apologies if they have), but someone on the list posted this interview with Karin.

Worth the Effort

thanks for posting the link!

man, little did i know still makes me cry. maybe we can all get together and have a crying party.

peace,
zayne

thanks for the link, steve.

anyone else find the very last sentence a little odd ? sending you to amazon rather than paste to purchase the cd.

yes thanks for posting this steve. i thought that it was a bit odd too that they direct you to amazon. i also thought it was funny that karin mentioned twice that they have people in their faces 24/7. i mean if she has a problem she could have just told me to my face at the casbah…sheesh.

That made me giggle....

Well, seeing as Paste is a shatstorm of customer unservice, I'd recommend Amazon as well...

~fff

It's hard not to feel weird reading an OTR interview in Christianity Today and read Karin speaking evangelicalspeak- the feeling I have is probably very much like the feeling all the GW Bush supporters had when they learned the band was pulling for John Kerry in the last election.

There's nothing wrong with it - it's just that one just tends to see oneself in good art, and so it's always a bit disorienting to have to square that with the fact that the artists are, in fact, not oneself, but their own selves.

!?HUH?!

What part doesn't make sense?

Eustace - fwiw, that made perfect sense to me. very well said, actually. thinking of OtR in terms of what we like about them, almost creating this image / fantasy in our minds that they aren't those kind of people (ones that would speak in terms evangelical christians would understand and relate to), but more like we are (or want them to be - perhaps hoping for a line or two that might rub an evangelical or two the wrong way). Just like folks maybe assuming they were Bush supporters maybe because they are Christians... and then you realize they are not what you made them to be in your mind. kind of like God.

guess i don't get it because i don't think karin and linford have ever been secretive about their faith -- it's been very clearly presented a number of times in writing and in their lyrics -- nor did i read the article as her using "evangelicalspeak".

speaking to christianity today does not seem far-fetched. seeking a counselor who is Christian to help her and lindford get back on track to preserve their marriage is correct in light of their zion world-view.



i'm not sure what this portion is communicating, so i cannot comment on it.

peace,
zayne

I, for one, find the "stereotypes" thing mildly disturbing...

Patrik

Oh, it's not the Christianness that threw me, but the fact that they consented to an interview in the flagship publication of evangelicalism - CT is not a magazine marketed toward Christians in general, but to evangelicals in particular. Since the band's music was something I discovered and something that I found comfort and joy in during the period in my life when I was moving away from evangelicalism, I was just a bit taken aback to find them in CT - again, not that they've done anything wrong in being in there, but just that, given my personal history with the band's music, it reminded me that they aren't the image I have of them in my head, which can be disorienting.



What stereotypes? CT is a self-proclaimed evangelical publication, and things like describing being in a band as a "ministry" or one's faith as a "walk" are pretty unique to evangelicals in my experience. Again, I'm not trying to say there's anything bad about it - just that it was not what I expected.

I was refering to Karins comment about women beeing the first to notice when something in a relationship is wrong.

Faith as walk is pretty unviersal, IMO, though.


Patrik

Is Over the Rhine a Christian band? :rolleyes:

Heh. Old eustace is getting sensetive in his twilight years.



Remember that used to be one of the FAQ questions on Don Smith's old OTR site (waaaay back in the 1990's)? I don't remember the answer, but I remember that I always sort of thought that if someone was asking the question, the answer was probably "yes".

::yawn::

will this ever go away? they have said repeatedly that they are not a "christian" band. how many times must they say it before some hear it and/or believe it? i think linford's (repeated) comments were along the lines of "they are not a christian band. they are christian's that have a band" and they have never overtly try to cultivate that audience in any way more than any other. they have never hidden the facts of their faith, they have discussed it openly numerous times. it seems to me that they write about life as they know it, their experiences, their outlook, their views and obviously their faith will influence their writing. but, as far as i know the answer (which has been ask of them multiple times) has never, ever been yes, in fact my intrepretation of their answer always been a rather emphatic "no".

i thought the interview was very good, very open, honest and responsive. i saw nothing "evangelical" about it, just a woman discussing her art, her love and her life and openly and honestly. personally, i could care less when, where and whom they discuss their music with whether it's "christianity today" or "satan worship tomorrow" as long as they remain true to what they do and what they are.

I think the "evangelicalism" in that article is much more in the queastions than in the answers.

Patrik

bill... pay no mind, pay no mind... it's just a question that i love to jokingly axe (because it's quite a dumb question on many levels)... it also goes well with "is your mom a christian band?" *

~fff

*- which rarely gets answered with a "yes" except for that one time I asked Amy Grant's kid.

dan, sorry for the confusion there. i know that you have asked that question several times in jest (and prob will several more ). i was really trying to address the part of eustacescrubb's post that i quoted ["I always sort of thought that if someone was asking the question, the answer was probably "yes"]. it was asked, they have answered and the answer was not yes.

Bill, I know. But is your mom a christian band?

~fff

nope, she plays drums in a kiss cover band.

Oh, so that was her...

~fff

doesn't she kick ass for a grandma?

Come on everybody...can we get a group hug here?

::extends arms with that "c'mon I need a hug from my mom and dad to know that they're not splitting" kind of face on::



Posty...did you REALLY say that to Amy Grant's kid? Because if you did, you rule!

I know that MY mom is a Christian band! She won at least 3 Dove awards...

P.S. I really enjoyed the article. As a happily married guy I saw a lot of the things my wife and I have tried to do to improve and strenghten OUR marriage. Yay Karin and Linford!

I think you might be right, patrik. On a re-read, I get the sense that the interviewer was trying to cultiavte a certain perception of the band that would sell well to CT's audience.



Yeah... I just don't know if they get to decide - which was kind of my point- like it or not, a large part of thier audience is the evangelical CCM crowd, to the point that their songs get on CCM compilations and they get interviewed in Christianity Today. Never mind the fact that one of the most prominent characteristics of both "Christian" music and evangelicalism is the desire to be accepted a normal person who "just happens to be a Christian," so that the very denial, in those terms (we're not a Christian band; we're a band of Christians) is almost a dead giveaway that maybe they are. That way of framing the issue is actually common to a lot of "Chrisitan" bands - Pedro the Lion, Sixpence, Damien Jurado, to name a few, have all made similar remarks.
Of course, the whol idea that there can be "Christian" bands is absurd on one level, so I don't begrudge any band's desire to not be pigeonholed by it, but I also don't think it's entirely within the band's power to choose it or not.

No, I never asked that of Amy Grant's kid... I don't even know if she has any... but if I met 'em, oh yeah I'd ask...

~fff

What I like about "christian bands" like Over the Rhine and Pedro the Lion is that they have songs with "shit" and "fuċk" in the lyrics...

Seriously. To me is shows the strength in their own personal relationship with their choice of higher being, as well as the lack of "the need" to fit into the institutional mold of "popular christianity." Major props to that.

~fff

It made me feel uncomfortable also.

Matt Q

does anyone know what the subscription rates are for Satan Worship Tommorrow, and how I can go about subscribing? it sounds like an interesting publication... especially the issue with the Over the Rhine interview (which, I'm assuming, was an interview with Linford to counterbalance Karin's evangelical leanings in that Christianity Today interview).

well i may be totally off here (probably am) but on first read (before anyone started posting on the subject) i got the feeling that the author ...after the interview...decided that there was not enough mention of God from Karen and just threw Him in here and there. i obviously don't know Karin well enough to know how she speaks, but the God talk in parts of the article just seemed a little forced/out of context to me.

"So we had to learn to really put each other first. We had to learn how to reprioritize where to put our affections, for*** God and*** each other, first."

No, it's about Linford's spoon collection... of all things.

no counterbalance...

~fff

While I can't speak for her either, I do think that knowing they were speaking to a xian magazine, they would consciously (or subconsciously) put on their christianese tongue. It happens.

~fff

not as in "let's use evangelical catch-phrases" but as in "try not to say f*ck or shit".

just bring your soul to the crossroads dear...

Well that's a raw deal. Used to be, in the old days, a body got mastery on the guitar in exchange for a soul. Now what do they get? A magazine? Harumph.

yeah, but trade-in values dropped seriously after these. maybe the devil lost a little street cred...

I never realized Britney sold her soul (except to the Music biz. etc.)

My, the entertainement quality in hell really has dropped lately.

Patrik

BTW, it is very difficult to answer a question like this without going at least a bit "evangelical" (unless the answer is no, of course)



I bet what happened is probably that the writer is sort of a fan, and went home after the interview feeling really exited because she could now tell her readers that it is officially OK to like OTR as an evangelical.

Patrik

yeah... and that's sad...

~fff

posty, you are beginning to use more than your fair share of the

you'll get over it...

What does that smiley mean, anyhow? Ninjas are coming?

It means, "Watch out because I have throwing stars and numchucks and I know how to use them!"


Good posts, Posty!

Funny, I was feeling exactly the same way when I read this post. As I read the interview, it struck me that I've heard this music for years "through the lens" of my own faith (and currently the lack thereof). I've not really read any of K & L's writings or heard them speak explicitly of being Christians, but it's obvious through many of their songs (especially I think on Eve and GDBD) that they have struggled with and questioned their faith in various ways. I have often identified with that struggle and appreciated that they could express it in intelligent, beautiful art. So to hear Karin speak of her faith just reminds me that not all who question fail to believe, and that not all who believe must do so without question.

aparadox, May 12 2005, 07:56 PM

"...just reminds me that not all who question fail to believe, and that not all who believe must do so without question."



Well said.

I would add, you shouldn't ever just believe without question. Doubt comes in tandem with faith. Faith, by definition, is a belief that does not rest on fact or known material evidence.

~fff

edited to add the word "ever"...

Well put, well put.

I guess that since the outcome of my struggle was that I gave up evangelicalism without giving up Christianity altogether, I've always seen OTR's music through that, and hence the oddness of seeing that (at least inasmuch as the interview, which we've already decided has been "massaged" by the writer to suit a particular audience, can reveal) Karin's struggle had a different outcome. Again, not a bad thing at all, but a tad disorienting.

It's probably good to be so disoriented every once in a while.

The article made me a bit uncomfortable too. I'm one of those people who likes to think of OTR as a group that's away from that whole subculture, but respected by Christians who aren't pressured by that scene. So to see Karin speek Christianese and talk about marriage like that seemed very odd to me. I guess I just don't know them as well as I think I do.

Am I the only one worried that we'll see our band get hijacked a bit here by Christians who want to tell everyone their story? It's not that I think that they shouldn't be putting it out there so others can learn from it, but i'm a bit scared of the Christian subculture taking a bite out of them on me.