This article makes me happy!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/...s.ap/index.html

My whole hang-up with the 'foie gras' thing is primarily due to the means at which the end product is derived (force feeding of the geese). It's a cruel method, merely for some form of pseudo-delicacy.

I say... YAY for Arnold!

~fafs

From WorldTable:

"Foie Gras Event Is Killed by Protests" is the headline that caught my attention in the NY Times on Tuesday, August 24, 1999. Michael Ginor, whose Hudson Valley Foie Gras is prized by starred chefs across the country was due to promote his new book, Foie Gras... A Passion at a panel discussion and tasting of foie gras scheduled for September at the Smithsonian Institute. Proceeds from ticket sales would have benefited the Smithsonian. Apparently the "tenor" of the messages from self styled animals rights activists caused the Smithsonian to cancel the event out of concern for the health and safety of the audience rather than the supposed inhumane treatment of the birds.

Mr. Ginor, whose operation produces duck foie gras, presents the process of force feeding as neither painful nor distressing to the ducks. As proof, he adds that "when a person comes to feed them, they come to the feeders." These birds don't like people and usually avoid humans, or worse yet, act aggressively toward them. In his excellent article on Foie Gras from duck and goose in Southwest France, in the Fall 1998 issue of the Art of Eating Edward Behr, concurs, noting that the birds grow accustomed to the feeder during the fattening and neither shy away much nor resist. The feeding tube stays in the bird's neck for about ten seconds. (Mr. Ginor says it's one and one half seconds.) Ducks naturally swallow grit and stones. The esophagus of a duck is lined with fibrous protein cells that resemble bristles and does not bear comparison to that of a human. The activists attempts at anthropomorphism are understandable when the intent is propaganda, not enlightenment. In Behr's words, "a stressed or hurt bird won't eat and digest well or produce a foie gras." Behr's article also cites a section of the forthcoming Foie Gras... A Passion as source for some interesting history about the production of foie gras.

The triumph of ignorance, and censorship by intimidation are offensive.

How does Mr. Ginor know that it isn't painful or distressing? Has he been a goose in a prior life? It just seems like a pseudo-researched remark by a "professional" that should be taken at face value even when it's something that is ridiculous to have complete knowledge.

Despite that the geese come to their feeders doesn't mean that the overfeeding is right. Being gluttons (whether humans or geese) is NOT HEALTHY for that living organism.



On a side note:
I find this statement of yours quite ironic and laughable.

~fafs

Yay, is right! Now if they'd only do something similar for all the calves that find themselvew fodder for veal. Yuck!

Your contention that his comments are "pseudo-researched remark by a "professional" is quite similar to the assumption that it IS 'cruel and unusual', eh? How can you substantiate that it is 'cruel and unusual'?

Geese ain't smart. That's no secret. But even geese are smart enough to go the other way if something hurts them.

I've personally seen 'foie-gras-feedings' and can confirm that they are not cruel. The geese did not appear distressed in any way. The feedings were not at all what I was expecting them to be. The geese seem quite happy about the feedings, in fact.


Just to be clear, this was Mr. Ginor's comment, not mine.

Also, to be clear, foie gras is an amazingly tasty item. I eat it every single chance I get.

to reply to this question for the 3rd time without sounding flamebaiting or anything alleged to be "against the guidelines"...

the general practice of preparing foie gras (fatty liver) is quite cruel and unusual (unnatural) with respect to the geese/ducks. pictorial...

is this cruel or unnatural? Yes.


is this cruel or unnatural? Yes.


is this natural? No.


I'm just posting this because it had been previously deleted (multiple times)... and I'd like to state my case. That is all.

~fff

The pictures of the liver (if that's what that is) do NOT depict foie gras. Livers are a rosy pink.

The foie gras production I have personally seen is nothing like what these pictures show.

The geese (I saw geese) moved around in a reasonably large pen/pasture, came to the farmer (who was seated in the middle on a stool) when he called them, allowed their necks to be held (by his hand, not a hook as your picture shows), and the feed tube inserted. This entire interaction took, maybe, 10 seconds per goose. The geese waddled off happily after being fed, and there were a couple geese who wanted another 'shot' of food -- the farmer had to keep shooing them.

My personal experience (as opposed to grainy pictures) is different than what you depict. I acknowledge that historically there were less humane methods used to manufacture foie gras, but the times, they are a' changin'.

The livers are a B&W picture.

Likewise your personal experience is only one view of it as well. I doubt they do tours of the force-feeding factory farms. And I also imagine the majority of foie gras producers don't have such a "friendly" method of feeding.

Agreed, the times they are a changin'. And I'm glad that Arnold signed the law to make it a mandatory change in California.

~fff

So, you're contending that just because you IMAGINE that "the majority of foie gras producers don't have such a "friendly" method of feeding", it becomes REALITY?

That's one powerful imagination you've got, Dan-o.

I had concerns about the humanity of the treatment of the geese in foie gras production. Those concerns were soothed when I saw the reality of it.

Not worthy of a response due to your cyclical nature of discussion.

Excellent. Then we can consider this topic closed.

ahem

Wow... who would have thought that goose-liver would cause such a hullabaloo.

I have never had foie gras.. probably never will. Liver in general just grosses me out.

justsino -- I am not a giant fan of liver either, but foie gras does not taste liver-y at all. There isn't really anything to compare with it in flavor or texture. Foie gras is simply one of the most delicious foods I have ever eaten.

Regarding the article that Dan cited... Amyloidosis is a valid concern for those animals with genetic susceptibility. Fortunately, the risk of genetic susceptibility is low and you'd need to eat a ton of foie gras to stand any significant risk of exposure (statistically the foodstream in this country is safe), and you're only susceptible if you have the genetics to be so (which, fortunately, is a very small percentage of the population).

Additionally, I am not sure if the application of heat during cooking impacts the amyloidosis risk... The article does not mention how the foie gras was prepared/cooked (if it was) before being given to the mice. Nor does the article mention HOW the foie gras was administered to the mice...

Allright I read that article that Posty left a link for. Then I decided to actually read the source PNAS(Proceedings of the National Academy of Science) article.

The authors injected 100ug of amyloid extract derived from commerical foie gra and injected i.v. or administered it by gavage. Translation, they injected 100ug of purified amyloid protein into the mice intravenously or put it down their throat.
both mice that were given the amyloid protein extract i.v. and by gavage developed signs of amyloidosis.

I see four potential problems with these results.

The first problem is that they used mice that were specifically engineered to express IL-6. For those of you not in the know, IL-6 is a pro-inflammatory soluble protein that is produced during infections and during certain conditions like rheumatoid arthritis. Human and mouse cells don't normally pump out IL-6. So this sets up a bias from the start. If you dont' believe me, look at Figure S5. The mice that weren't fed ANY amyloid extract and sacrificed after 2 months had a score of 4 on their scale of amyloidosis.

The second problem being that 100ug of protein is a lot of protein for a mice. If you translated that by body mass it would be in the kilograms for a human. Unless you are a glutton of unimaginable proportion you probably aren't going to eat enough of foie gra to get kilograms of amyloid.

The third problem has to do with how the protein was prepared. They extracted the protein by chemical processes and then purified it out from other liver proteins using chemicals and an HPLC machine. Unless cooks normally have training in HPLC and somehow do some magical things that we don't know about, I suspect that foie gra isn't normally prepared like that.

The fourth problem I have is related to the third problem, the state of the protein folds and its native chemistry. Normally foie gra is cooked and then administered orally. Then the protein is exposed to stomach acids and stomach enzymes, though I maybe remembering wrong on the enzymes. So folks we have heat from the cooking that can potentially change the protein structure as well as gastric acids and/or gastric enzymes which may modify the protein as well.

When the authors heated up the foie gra according to the sellers instructions (95oC I believe) and then purified the extracts and gave the extract i.v.(not by gavage, which would have made much more sense) the mice exhibited less signs of amyloidosis.

In sum, there isn't enough evidence from this one paper to suggest that eating foie gra is going to cause amyloidosis in the average human. The authors did suggest that patients with chronic diseases like rheumatoid arthritis might be predisposed to getting this amyloidosis, but this is a suggestion/speculation without proof.

So eat up if you like foie gra. Or don't. Either is fine by me. Just please read any reports in the newspaper with some degree of skepticism instead of accepting it blindly because it appeals to your conviction.