What do you think about the shows on TV and movies that have gay people as central characters?
Examples I can think of that I watch:
The L Word
Six Feet Under
Rescue Me

Others I have not watched:
Queer Eye for the Straight Guy
Queer as Folk
Will and Grace

Movies I have seen:
Chasing Amy
As Good as it Gets
Birdcage
In and Out
The Boys in the Band
The Crying Game
It's My Party

Series:
Angels in America

These are only a few.
I wondered what straight and gay opinions are about these shows as far as true to life depiction.

Do you think the show acurately depicts the actions and attitudes of gay people?
Other shows you have liked that you recommend?

I have seen:

QEFtSG--It's just another reality show that was good in novelty, but the bloom is now off the rose. Sometimes, I do think it's "over the top" in its gayness, but mostly it's just another designer show. I mean they all have gay men on them anyway, right--this one is just the one that has tried to capitalize on it by elevating it to the level it has. Sometimes it is funny, but I admit I don't watch it every day either.

W&G--Hate it. No one on this show is likable. Each character is either selfish, self absorbed, immature, unredeemingly rude and annoying, or any combo of all of the above. And doesn't Jack epitomize all that gay men are trying to overcome, and make fun of all that gay women are trying not be pigeon holed as?

QaF--Only saw it once, and it was two guys having sex talking about how gay sex was always a little about the physical pain of the act, and that it would always be painful and that was why it was so good. I didn't get that and it frankly turned me off due to the graphic way it was presented. I generally don't like ANY sex scene though unless it propels the plot. Sex sells, but it also cheapens IMHO.

Chasing Amy was good. I thought is so tragic and fresh. I even didn't mind Ben Afleck as Holden.

As Good as it Gets was a blip on my radar. Helen Hunt ruins any movie for me. I had actually forgotten that Greg Kinear's character was gay until just now.

Birdcage. Wasn't my cup of tea. Are the gays represented truthfully, I doubt it, but it's a comedy.

The Crying Game was just wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which was the fact that it was a ripoff of Madame Butterfly, and then there was the "now infamous" reveal. Can you say gra-tu-itous??

Others that come to mind are:

Philadelphia--First of all I hate Tom Hanks (yes, we do exist) and so he pretty much ruined the movie for me, but I felt otherwise it tried too hard to victimize the gay man. Hey, I know it happens, but I just felt that it was laborious and I couldn't suspend disbelief enough to get into the movie.


Overall, I don't know if the media is trying all that hard to accurately portray gays on the big and small screens so much as they are trying to desensitize the rest of America to the "stigma" of the way of life. If this is true, then it becomes less of an issue to accurately portrtay anything, than to just entertain.

HTH,
Mark

i have a little pet peeve with this line of thinking... not that mark is thinking it himself, but he did point out a question (or rather, an accusation) that i get a lot.

there's not much of an 'agenda' in hollywood, on any topic. not like you think. honest. most of what you see in entertainment is a mix of what's on the minds of the people making the pictures, and what the studios can make money on. so, in lieu of this topic, recognize that in hollywood there is A) the desire to make a lot of money, and B) a strong presence of gays. meaning only that there are a lot of gay people in town, and so putting gays in media comes much more naturally to us than some parts of the country might think. and also, that in order to make money, people need new things to see, and gay characters are still relatively new. i happen to believe the current presence of gay characters in entertainment is partly because creative people in the business can finally express themselves in that way, can finally explore that territory, and partly because it's new and entertaining for the public, and thereby makes a lot of money.

i realize this sounds like circular logic - it isn't really. one thing isn't dependent on the other, they are just happening in tandem.

what IS circular is that unfortunately, stereotypes are funny, so people watch those, and the studios make money off those stereotypes, and then produce more of them.

it's also late and i'm hoping this makes sense.


in response to trudes' question - i'm happy to have gay characters around. it mixes things up, and i hope their presence is beginning to personalize gay people to those who don't associate with them.

i'm not gay, so i can't speak as to how accurately any of these shows portray gay people. i assume they portray them just as accurately as any show portrays someone like me (meaning: usually not well at all). i hope it's not a cop-out to say i like shows based on their characters, stories, and (i'll be honest) art direction. :) a flat character who's gay is just as uninteresting as a flat character who's straight. personally, any criticism of these shows would be just that - criticisms of the shows.

but good question, trudes.

I agree and I'm happy about this.



I think some people (many people) fear the unknown. Perhaps gays on the screen are an introduction to some who might deny reality.
Thanks for the insite into the real Hollywood, Melanie.

I disagree and am happy about this too.

well, spend some time working in the business out here, and we'll talk.

I enjoyed The L Word so much I watched the entire season in a 2-day marathon session!

Alice's "maze" reminded me a little of "the vicious circle" of girls I knew in college (everyone had slept with everyone else, it seemed). I like the characters on The L Word; seems like the producers/writers/directors spent a bit more time developing Bette, Jenny (the token bisexual!) and Shayne, and two of those three (Bette and Shayne) were among my favorites on the show. 'Course, I am blown away by the beauty of Marina (Karina Lombard), and I hope they show us more of Alice next season (she also claims to be bisexual, but ... heh).

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I haven't seen enough "gayness" on Rescue Me to comment, really.

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As for Queer as Folk: I have seen only an episode and a half, but my sister LOVES this show ... much more than The L word, actually. She thinks the characters are way better developed.

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Will & Grace rarely ceases to amuse me ... whenever I remember to watch it. (Doesn't help that it's on the same time as CSI.) Yeah, Jack is a stereotypical "flamer," and his character is very endearing, while Will is more the "straight man" of the two. I like Karen's sexual ambiguity ... if not her voice ... yikes!!!

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Chasing Amy: It has been a long time since I saw this one, but it deals with a LOT of issues ... not just sexuality, though that plays a big part. I sort of found myself wondering what factors, exactly, go into making a relationship "work" after watching this film ... and not just romantic relationships, either.

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As Good as It Gets: This is one of my FAVORITE movies, and I know it drew a lot of criticism for Melvin's constant slurs against Simon, but I adored the three main characters in this film. I think, as viewers, we are not supposed to like Melvin; his neuroses and prejudices are supposed to make us uncomfortable, and they do ... which is why it's so great when he can actually say what's on his mind (the way Carol always does, as he points out, in that great great scene between them at the end). Simon is a doll, and I love the strength that he gains by being true to his art. And Carol ... well, I had never been a huge Helen Hunt fan, but she was so incredibly GREAT in this movie, playing this strong, regular girl, that I honestly now feel she can do no wrong!

: )

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The Crying Game: Another one of my faves. There is just something so moving about this ... maybe it's the accents?? Stephen Rea is SO understated, and who could have expected to learn what we learned about Dil??! (Of course, I had read a review of the film before I saw it, so the "surprise" was ruined for me ... yet, I still loved the movie.) Overall, I thought this movie was such a great depiction of contrition and love and loyalty ... and Jaye Davidson was awesome, and I wonder why we've not seen him in anything since??! (At least I haven't!)

I would love to. Can I come job shadow you?

[hijack] He was in Stargate the movie--playing another gender ambigous role as the demigod Ra.
[/hijack]

heh. you'd be bored to tears.

i had a friend visiting from philly last week - i took her to a 'hollywood' party. when we left i asked if she'd had fun, and she said, 'well... it was strange... it was just... strange....'

Somehow, I doubt it. Are you an editor? I remember you from the list as doing something with film right?


m

American Beauty deals some with homosexuality.

The 2 neighbors that are partners....and then the horrible scene where the 'homophobic/closet case' military father decides to try to kiss Lester, gets rejected and then shoots him in the head.

I say horrible because it is just difficult to watch.

This may have been an exaggeration, but there is some truth in that sometimes I think homosexuals are SO fearful of being found out that they might commit horrible acts of unjustice in an effort to have their sexual preference kept under wraps.

I'd like to see this examined more in movies and on television. Especially the phenomema of gay men who get married to women, have children and later realize and finally admit that they have been living a lie. There is a lot of potential pain for those women/children involved. (And I'm sure it goes the same way with lesbians who get married to men, but my personal experience has only been with walking through this heartache with a couple girlfriends).

I still perfecting my tricks and tests for making sure that men I date are attracted to women. If anyone has any tips, let me know.

I have started watching Queer Eye whenever I see it on. I think it is funny and has good tips for lots of things, from food to interior design to fashion.

In 'Rescue Me' homophobia is touched upon when an older, 'machokindaguy' fireman picks a fight with a gay man in a bar over something the gay man had said about members of his firehouse being gay.
During the squabble, the gay man was badly injured.
The city suspended the older fireman and he went before a hearing to determine if he should be reinstated.
The older man's son happened to be gay but the fireman had kept this a secret from everyone in his life and was even estranged from the son.
He called upon his son to testify for his dad that he was not homophobic and that he should be reinstated to the firehouse company.
The son agreed and testified the lie to the court, stating he was his gay son.
Afterwards, the father still didn't introduce him to his firehouse buddies and tried to push the son off to a corner where he wouldn't be seen with him.
The son realizes this and says...'next time you need a reference, ask somebody else.' (paraphrased)
They part...the son extrememly hurt, the father seemingly unaffected.
It was a very sad storyline to watch.

For me, if the acting is great and the plot doesn't make me yawn, I don't care if they're gay, straight or bi-sexual. I've never given much thought about acurate depiction if the above holds true. I've seen overdone, wacky straight characters, y'know? Same with the sex, if it's good, it's good, no matter what the orientation (to me at least). There are movies with heterosexual sex that I have a hard time focusing on the screen for cause it's just that bad and pointless. Limiting a good movie and a hot sex scene to heterosexual characters only means you're missing out on some great flicks and great shows, IMO.



Big Eden <- so, so, so cute!!
Bedrooms and Hallways
Flawless
Love! Valor! Compassion!
Go Fish <- indie w/a capital I - low budget no doubt, b/w, handheld camera... but with adorable characters
All Over the Guy
November Moon
Our Lady of the Assassins (not recommended to all, read up on it first)
Kissing Jessica Stein
All About My Mother
And the Band Played On

... to name a handfull.

Also, check out Rose Troche. She's behind several of the movies I mentioned and has worked w/ SFU and L Word. Looking up her name at least a year ago is how I found Bedrooms and Hallways (which i loved and is too cute).

few comments:

The L Word - no showtime, will rent soon.
Six Feet Under - love it, miss it, thank goodness they all wind up on DVD.
Rescue Me - first i've heard about it in here in the orchard.

QEftSG - love it, it's good fun this show. actually, i love seeing the home transformation more than the straight dude's transformation.
Queer as Folk - only saw first 2 seasons, thought it was a great show. raw and graphic, bye bye kid gloves.
Will & Grace - they crack me up, all of them. i only watched the reruns if i was up late enough.

I've never seen Boys in the Band and It's My Party but I really liked all other movies mentioned.

Because I'm still an adolescent at 24 (the forever teenage syndrome), I religiously watch a show called Degrassi: The Next Generation that comes on the Noggin channel. Not only does this show masterfully deal with issues involving sexuality, it's just a damn good show..

my boyfriend, and a majority of my friends, are editors. i'm an art department girl who's worked in a variety of other areas, including editing and producing, and currently (i'm sorry to say), marketing & promotions.

just living here and working in the biz, you wind up knowing someone at every level in every position.

and that's my boring story that most have heard before - [/hj]



nobody's mentioned it, so i'd like to mention y tu mama tambien. a gorgeous movie and beautiful story of nebulous sexuality. i loved it.

Boys Don't Cry
Bound
Mulholland Drive
Big Eden
Urbania
The Wedding Banquet

Also, do you think Billy Elliot was gay?

nope. i thought that was a bit of a point they tried to make - A) that just because he loved to dance didn't make him gay, and B) that even if he was gay, who cares?

but i'm a cheerleader- great movie starring natasha lione (sp?). not only does it offer a pretty realistic relationship development, it also works as a scathing satire of the whole "exodus" movement (the people who try to train people to stop being gay).

I'm wondering what everyone thinks about the upcoming film cantation of Annie Proulx's novel Brokeback Mountain? It's being directed by Ang Lee and is starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger. Check out the stats here.

I've not read the book, but have been lurking some message boards and it looks like a very interesting story. I loved The Shipping News (novel and film) and am excited to see another of this wonderful author's works brought to the screen.

Speaking of billy elliot and his possible gay-ness, has anyone here seen the MadTV where Jack from Will and Grace played Billy Elliot? Oh man, that was hilarious!!!

I can still remember a few of my sailor friends asking me over to watch this film with
Adien Quinn(?) there was a scene with two guys kissing(Mind you this San Diego in the 80's) all eyes were on me and my reaction. My reaction...the popcorn needs more butter! Am i bothered No. If it fits the story line then so be it...but I do not like gratuitous gayness any more than gratuitous sex in a film! I also think stereotypes are societies fuel of expectations!

My all-time faves:

Tales From the City
More Tales From the City
Further Tales From the City

I have boots of both movie sets and all the books. Armistead Maupin wove a fine, fine tale of life in the 70's in San Francisco. So many sweet memories. I knew many people like the characters he created. I read them over and over with much love. I'll never forget reading about Herbal Essence shampoo, the original from the 70's, and automatically smelling something I hadn't smelled in about 20 years. I LOVED that shampoo! And, I would have loved living with Mrs. Madrigal. It's too bad PBS got cold feet after producing the 1st series and a good thing that Showtime (I think it was Showtime) picked up the 2nd. I only wish they would have completed them all.

Cher

Man, I was *finally* able to score the first DVD of Season 1 from Blockbuster yesterday. They got one copy of Season 1 in at least 4-6 weeks ago and disc 1 has been out since (I check everytime). And yesterday was pure luck - I said to the guy at the counter "Can you look up L Word and tell me if it's actually being returned and checked back out or if the same person has it and I need to start busting out cash to bribe an address from you...?" He says: "Oh, volume 1 came in today." and pulls it out of the stack next to him. !?!? I watched 1&2 last night (pilot) and am interested enough that I'm looking forward to see how it continues. Lot's of stuff happening there... them gals is BUSY! Jennifer Beals is so stinkin' lovely. And so is the chick that plays Jeni - those eyes! But boy oh boy am I with Lynne on this...



YES! My goodness that woman is just... *sigh* I can't even think of a worthy adjective.

I realize I've only seen the pilot episode - but I'm hoping for more focus on the professional/work part of their lives. Seems there's a huge amount of time for coffee and social hang-out. Do they get more into this as the series goes on?

My gay buddies don't generally think that QAF represents their life all that well.. I've seen it and don't care for it all that well. I'd seen one episode of L Word and it grated on me similarly.

I'm wicked late to this thread, but I'd add "Broken Hearts Club: A Romantic Comedy" to any list of enjoyable gay themed movies. imdb'ing now to check, but it has Zach Braff (from Scrubs), Dean Cain (TV Superman), Timothy Olyphant (from Go, one of my favorite movies of all time), John Mahoney (Frasier's dad) and Justin Theroux (the bad Irishman from Charlie's Angels 2). It's just a well written romantic comedy and the characters happen to be gay. The comedy is good fun, the romantic part and such is well done too.

And "But I'm A Cheerleader" I'll second. Muy funny.

Will & Grace, if only Grace could go on a few year vacation, would be hilarious too. Megan Mullally's character.... argh. how goofy is it that I remembered her name but not her TV name? argh. Karen. whew. She's awesome. A+ on that character.

A very dark, but excellent movie.

QasF is over-the-top stereotypical to the point of being cartoonish. Love Hal Sparks, but could only watch a few minutes of such drivel. It's like a show about homosexual men and women totally built around catch phrases and nonsense. Dumb show, pillar to post.

No one has mentioned Jeffrey yet. The best, most genuine, big-studio film I've personally seen about homosexual relationships.

no one has mentioned Latter Days either.

"aaron prays. christian plays. opposites attract."

turns out he's not so opposite afterall. i picked this up at hollywood a while back, the title caught my eye of course. the morman missionary moves to town and knocks on the door, you know the rest of the story.

I'm about to sorta complain about gratuitious sex on screen. Yeah, I'm shocked too.

The L Word.

I started off enjoying Season 1 until it turned ridiculous. Which honestly, made me a little sad. Sad because I found the characters interesting and fun and felt that they could have taken personalities and plots a lot farther than they did - to the point that the Season 1 Finale was nothing but a bunch of everybody banging everybody else. Everyone's story has potential but they give us flashes of depth and lots 'o sex. I'd rather see flashes of sex and lots 'o depth. Hell, even a little more depth would be nice, I'm really not that picky.

I started Season 2 last night, watched the first 2 episodes and again, lots o' sex and potential depth. They barely tap on plots that could really go into detail which results in me not investing much curiosity to it continuing or the outcome. What's most disappointing to me is that Rose Troche is one of the major behind the scenes players of this series which is what made me a little more excited about L Word to begin with. I remember watching the 'conversations with the cast' on the last disc of Season 1 and listening to a lot them repeat the groundbreaking theme regarding this show and I just really don't see anything groudbreaking outside of the fact that I've never seen so many chicks making out with each other on the same show for under an hour.

Am I alone on this? I know we've got a few L Word watchers on board here. Thoughts, guys?



And I will HUGELY second that. Saw that a long time ago and adored the hell out of it. And, another recommendation, I saw Saving Face last week and highly, highly recommend it. Not only is it a very cute lesbian romantic comedy it's a very cute chinese-american lesbian comedy that hits on love, family and culture. Great lil' movie.

My God, all they seem to talk about on the Patty Griffin forum is how great The L Word is. Of course a fair proportion of the fans there are Ls, so I guess some of the admiration is attributable to the drool factor. I still haven't seen it myself, I can never remember when it's on.

Makes sense. I mean, those women are quite tasty treats to gaze upon. Jennifer Beals is gorgeous and hasn't aged a darn day since Flashdance.
I miss the Marina character, looking at her face onscreen made me sigh.
I'm straight, but I'd hook up with Alice in a heartbeat.
Mia Kirshner - Beautiful to look at, annoying character on screen.
Shane - what a great ho.

I have no gripes with Pam Grier and Kelly Lynch - they're F'in A cool by default, even if they do insist on covering Kelly Lynch up as a blonde woman-Elvis.

Shane seems a very popular character with the gals over there, and apparently they're not especially looking for realism. A typical L Word post:


I love those folks on PattyNet.

[asterisks not in source, for the curious]

Oh Keith. Keith, Keith, Keith.

I just read a full-flege play-by-play scoop on the first episode of L-Word: Season 3.
Since I watch it in that just can't help myself way I figured the folks over @ PattyNet would have a review.
Needless to say it was detailed and lengthy and I didn't pay any attention to who wrote it till someone "thanked keith".
Imagine my surprise to see that Keith From NY posted it!

Awesome review, buddy.

Re: The L Word

I watched the entire first season on video over the course of two days. I really liked some of the characters (Bette, Alice, Dana, Marina -- yeah, she's gorgeous! -- Shane and Kit), wasn't too fond of the others. Found most of the storylines to be rather weak, but overall, I figured: First season, we're just getting to know them all, I'll give it a good, solid B.

Second season: Pretty much pointless. Marina's gone, rich-bitch Helena's here. I still found the storylines lacking, and the character development, for most of the girls, seemed non-existent. Grade: D-.

Third season: I'm watching, but barely. Mostly so I can see girls kissing, occasionally.

: )

One of the complaints I heard after Season 1 was that The L Word featured "unrealistic" lesbians -- i.e., no butch lesbians. So, this season, they bring in a butch lesbian, but guess what? She's actually rumored to be transgendered. Which is a whole 'nother realm.

(For the record: Most of the lesbians I know bear a closer resemblance to Ellen DeGeneres than to Jennifer Beals or the actresses that play Helena or Carmen -- true "lipstick lesbians." Not butch, but somewhere in the middle.)

Anyhoo, that's my 2 cents. For now.

: )

I've been 'keeping up' with Season 3 via this fabulous recap website I scored on the Pattynet forums (rock on, keith!):

AfterEllen.com - L Word: Season 3 recaps

I don't know who it is that writes this stuff, but I LOVE IT! Their dialogue is so spankalicious I might still rent Season 3 once it's on DVD just to replay this stuff in my head. I feel the same way about Season 2 as well. Just, shallow and pointless. Love the "D-". I was way pissed about no more Marina, especially when Jenny is so. freaking. annoying. And it's not Mia Kirshner, as I've liked her in other stuff. Esp. in 24 - I'd like to see more of her in 24 and not just little cameo parts. Anyhoo... check that site out, seriously, the run-down is damn enjoyable.

after hearing about this show from peeps here and elsewhere, i checked season one out from the library.

over all: surprised more guys don't talk about this show with all the nakedness and girl on girl action.

liked it, for the most part -- bette, tina, alice -- love how clumsy dana is in like and love -- hated that dana and lara didn't last -- can't stand the curly haired chick -- yeah -- i think she killed mr. piddles.

thought the coupling of bette and the carpenter was forced and stretching it. didn't feel any connection between them. their story felt weak.

jennifer beals is beautiful. she gives great facial expressions.

lisa confused me. is his identity real in the real world?

ivan. nice person.

shane reminds me of one of the ra's in the dorm i was in during college...look, actions, voice...everything. good to see that she could love, sorry it was with the one she gave her heart to.

like the clothes.

like that they, like the women in sex and the city, join together over coffee.

peace,
zayne