Is Wilco Overrated?, And Jay Farrar Underrated? Options

[Tonepoet77]

Hey all... thought I'd "stir the pot."

I haven't been much for Wilco since "Summerteeth." It seems like they decided to go into Radiohead territory after that album. I think it strange that they are the critics' darlings, much as Radiohead was for a time, even though the music got progressively wierder and wierder and they alienated most their fans.

Maybe I just haven't listened to the later-year records enough. But I think Jay Farrar's stuff has been head & shoulders above what Wilco has done recently, especially his last studio album, "Terroir Blues." And the live albums he's done with Canyon are amazing. He's putting Son Volt back together (though I think the only original member other than Jay is the drummer, Mike Heidorn, from back in the Uncle Tupelo days...).

My two cents...

[kab]

i hope not! i just bought my first wilco cd from amazon the other day! (it hasn't arrived yet!)

yankee hotel foxtrot...

This post has been edited by gloria_etta: Jan 3 2005, 11:02 AM

[WalrusOct9]

It seems like they decided to go into Radiohead territory after that album.

Yeah...that was kind of sad. If you ever get a chance, check out the Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Demos, I much prefer them to the finished album (although I did enjoy the real YHF album as well).

I think YHF was a great album, but a little overhyped. A Ghost Is Born completely lost me, I really couldn't get into it at all. But they've made four albums I really enjoyed, so I'm not giving up on them yet.

*disclaimer: Walrus f'ing hates radiohead*

[«°¤°»]

my opinion...

Wilco is overrated. But still somewhat enjoyable.
Wilco did not venture into Radiohead territory. They're far too boring to do things as sonically interesting as Radiohead.
I like both Wilco and Radiohead. Radiohead far more, though.
Wilco is, like, maybe in the top 100 bands in my catalog. RH, in the Top 5 or 10...

~fff

[Glenn_Judy]

I don't think Wilco is over rated. I'm glad that they do whatever they like, and people don't have to like it at all. Too bad other performers don't do that.

[MyWaterMyWine]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Demos, I much prefer them to the finished album

I agree

[DustyVolume]

I have YHF (what does that mean anyway) and like it alright. I personally couldn't get into Summerteeth because it was too country sounding. And I almost bought A Ghos is Born the other day, but refrained due the prospect that they might have gone back to their Summerteeth roots.

And I'll echo Glen Judy, I'm glad there are bands out there doing what they want regardless. It paves the way for artists like OTR who are lesser know, but more or less doing the same thing.

[Brookd]

I think Wilco is underrated by people who think they are overrated
and Sonvolt is overrated by people who think they are underrated.

[keith from ny]

I never really got what was so great about Uncle Tupelo. I wasn't into roots/Americana music at all back when they were together, but I bought their Anthology CD a few years ago to see what I missed. My favorite track on it is their cover of John Fogarty's Effigy. The rest of it is okay, but I really can't understand why they're considered "the" pioneers of alt-country when Lucinda Williams and Steve Earle were doing what I consider alt-country (and better) music long before they came on the scene.

I always thought Ferrar was a better singer and composer than Tweedy myself. Fred was nice enough to give me Yankee Foxtrot Hotel shortly after it came out, but I've listened to it twice and I'm not sure I'll ever listen to it again (Fred is always telling me what an ungrateful SOB I am). That's about the extent of my familiarity with Wilco. I never heard much of Son Volt's stuff, but I like Ferrar's Sebastopol, which I bought a couple of years ago on Cher's recommendation, quite a bit. Ferrar also did a great set with Canyon when I saw him at the 2003 Austin City Limits festival.

I'd have to say Radiohead has it all over either of these bands.

[GoodDog]

As a long time fan (saw Uncle Tupelo a few times back in the day), I think to get a complete picture of Wilco, one must start at the beginning of the group. If you haven't before, listen to "A.M.", Wilco's first album. It's basically an extension of Uncle Tupelo stuff. Nice, but very countrified. (if that's a word) I thought "Being There" was brilliant, and still do. On this album Wilco is taking their country, rock, & blues influences and expanding upon them, like any good band will do. (Rolling Stones on Exile for example) "Summerteeth" really got the whole experimental/sonic sound for them started. I think if you listen to "Summerteeth" and "A.M." back to back, most would not recognize it being the same group.

Can the same thing be said for OTR? Listen to 'Til We Have Faces" and then "Ohio" back to back. Do they sound the same? Of course not. Nor should they. OTR, like Wilco have grown as a group and as songwriters. "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" and "A Ghost Is Born" are, to me at least, a natural progression in Jeff Tweedy's songwriting. Not everyone will like it, but not everyone liked it when Dylan outgrew "folk anthems" either. I have to cut this short because I'm late, but I will just say that I feel Wilco is not overrated at all. I find them one of the few American bands that continually challenge both themselves and their fans by creating music that is wonderful, strange, exciting, and sonic. In 50 years time, I think Wilco will still be remembered as a band that pushed boundaries in music. Will Modest Mouse? Will Franz Ferdinand? Will Coldplay? Will (fill in the blank with 98% of bands out there)? Doubtful.

Jay Farrar is another post for a later date.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

This post has been edited by GoodDog: Jan 3 2005, 04:54 PM

[«°¤°»]

Can the same thing be said for OTR?  Listen to 'Til We Have Faces" and then "Ohio" back to back.  Do they sound the same?  ... "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" and "A Ghost Is Born" are, to me at least, a natural progression in Jeff Tweedy's songwriting.

Wilco doesn't have the emotional sucker-punch that OtR has, though.

I have all of Wilco's albums (and I like 'em), but they just don't hit me as hard as everyone is saying they should. Hence I agree with the terminology of "overrated."

~fff

This post has been edited by posty mcposterton: Jan 3 2005, 07:42 PM

[Lynne]

yankee hotel foxtrot...

I love this album!

Or, at least, a few of the songs on it.

As for the "overrated" part: ???!

Most of my friends haven't heard of 'em. Everyone I know who has heard of 'em likes 'em ... though a couple of people like Son Volt better.

So, again: ???!

: )

[Toga080]

Summerteeth is by far Wilco's best album and probably most underated. Farrar is much more talented than Tweedy.

[kab]

yankee hotel foxtrot...

I love this album!

Or, at least, a few of the songs on it.

As for the "overrated" part: ???!

Most of my friends haven't heard of 'em. Everyone I know who has heard of 'em likes 'em ... though a couple of people like Son Volt better.

So, again: ???!

: )

thanks, lynne! this has been the most helpful to me! (of course, i was hijacking the thread to begin with...)

[GoodDog]

Wilco doesn't have the emotional sucker-punch that OtR has, though.

But doesn't that statement revert back to the argument about musical subjectivity? What lacks in emotional punch for you may have a deep emotional impact for me. Doesn't necessarily make them "overrated" or "underrated" does it?

[GoodDog]

Farrar is much more talented than Tweedy.

What do you base that on? I think Jay Farrar is an amazing talent, but I don't think he is that much more talented than Jeff Tweedy. This argument is the same I was having in 1992 with the few Uncle Tupelo fans around here. When UT broke up, Jay & Jeff both started their solo careers with a sound familiar to the fans of Uncle Tupelo. As they developed further, their sound changed. (See "Sebastopol" & "Terroir Blues" by Farrar & "Summerteeth", "YHF" & "AGIB" by Wilco) Why can't both be viewed as great songwriters with differing styles? Some prefer Jay over Jeff & vice versa. I tend to look at both of their work as separate entities with a unique sound for each. Unfortunately, I think they will always be compared to each other just because they once were in the same band. They were/are two very different personalities as well as musicians.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

(Edited for spelling...sorry.)

This post has been edited by GoodDog: Jan 4 2005, 12:28 AM

[«°¤°»]

Wilco doesn't have the emotional sucker-punch that OtR has, though.

But doesn't that statement revert back to the argument about musical subjectivity? What lacks in emotional punch for you may have a deep emotional impact for me. Doesn't necessarily make them "overrated" or "underrated" does it?

That's moot, as the whole topic relates to subjectivity.

Everything I say is in my opinion, thus it's subjective.

Two subjective statements:

• I like Wilco, they're good.
• Wilco is highly overrated.

There is no need to put "IMO" at the end of either statement. It's understood... or it should be.

~fff

[GoodDog]

There is no need to put "IMO" at the end of either statement.  It's understood... or it should be.

Many, many people that post on this board are VERY sensitive to any criticism of their favorite musicians, authors, artists, TV shows, etc. I only put the disclaimer to avoid offending anyone.

[Lynne]

Many, many people that post on this board are VERY sensitive to any criticism of their favorite musicians, authors, artists, TV shows, etc.  I only put the disclaimer to avoid offending anyone.

[sort of a hijack]

Something that I have learned (about myself), recently, is that I am rather sensitive to unasked-for criticism of/negativity toward things (food, books, movies, music, bands, art, etc.) that I like ... especially if I really really like some certain particular thing.

This applies almost exclusively to "real time" — for example, when I mention at work that I loved a certain episode of Seinfeld, and how it happened to be playing last night on Channel 3, and a co-worker will chime in, "God, I HATE that show!" A completely unsolicited negative remark about something I clearly love — THIS annoys me.

When I am posting on a message board, however, especially a message board that offers the chance to discuss (and praise/criticize) different films, bands, etc., then I fully expect (and enjoy, actually!) opinions that are sometimes far different from my own. In fact, I admit that I have been exposed to lots of great music and books and movies and other stuff just by joining in on some of these discussions.

Just a few thoughts.

[/end of hijack]

[jame$]

Of all the pared-down, jingle jangle, rootsy rock that came from the early 90s, I think everyone is overrated compared to The Jayhawks. Of all the bands mentioned, no one is capable of duplicating the harmonies that the pre-split Jayhawks had. *Tommorow the Green Grass* is in my all-time top 5, and *Hollywood Town Hall* is probably the most underrated roots rock album ever.......E-VER!

<--- opinionated

[«°¤°»]

then again jame$... I would probably consider much of the jangly-variety roots rock to be overrated...



This post has been edited by posty mcposterton: Jan 4 2005, 02:19 PM

[GoodDog]

Something that I have learned (about myself), recently, is that I am rather sensitive to unasked-for criticism of/negativity toward things (food, books, movies, music, bands, art, etc.) that I like ... especially if I really really like some certain particular thing.

This applies almost exclusively to "real time" — for example, when I mention at work that I loved a certain episode of Seinfeld, and how it happened to be playing last night on Channel 3, and a co-worker will chime in, "God, I HATE that show!" A completely unsolicited negative remark about something I clearly love — THIS annoys me.

When I am posting on a message board, however, especially a message board that offers the chance to discuss (and praise/criticize) different films, bands, etc., then I fully expect (and enjoy, actually!) opinions that are sometimes far different from my own. In fact, I admit that I have been exposed to lots of great music and books and movies and other stuff just by joining in on some of these discussions.

Just a few thoughts.

[/end of hijack]

Excellent points to ponder, Lynne. I just play it very safe and careful on this and other boards, because anything someone writes can be misconstrued so easily as a personal attack on their taste, when it is not at all.

[eustacescrubb]

I love Wilco's recent turn away from the alt-country, personally. I don't think they sound a thing like Radiohead, and I think the comparison between Wilco and Radiohead is tenuous at best (both bands sounds have evoled over time, but that's about the extent of the similarity). If I were to compare them to anyone, it'd be John Lennon - just as his music grew away from its 50s rock roots and became more expert in meoldy and intricate in composition, Wilco's music has done the same with respect to country music. If you dig Lennon's mid to late 70s work, you'll dig Wilco's recent two records. If you dig mid-career Neil Young, you might like them as well.
The nice thing about recorded music is that Wilco don't have to repeat Being There or Summerteeth; fans of those albums can listen to those albums over and over if they like. Wilco are then free to make the music they want to make.
For a long time, Being There was my favorite. I'm only fond of about half of Summerteeth ("Via Chicago" and "How To Fight Lonliness" are both incredibly beautiful). But I do think A ghost is born has replaced it as my favorite Wilco record. It is actually the first record since last August to get a higher play count in my iTunes than OHIO. Up till recently, OHIO haas been the number one most played album since I started using iTunes back in 2000. Now it's A ghost is born, but just barely.
As for "overrated" - by whom? The critics? Music critics usually overrate ten albums and underrate the rest. That's how it works. So ignore them. It's all about sales for them anyhow.
But is A ghost is born good? Well, it depends on your tastes, of course. If you want the old Wilco sound, it will dissapoint you. Max Johnsont left the band before Summerteeth; Ken Coomer left the band before YHF, having been replaced by Glenn Kotche; Jay Bennet left the group after YHF, and Leroy Bach joined, so in many ways it's a completely different band now.
As for me, A ghost is born inspires me and makes my pulse race. I listen to it several times a day.

[Tonepoet77]

Dang, I did stir the pot... I need to pay more attention. I should also explain myself...

I was commenting on two things, really. One, I think Jay Farrar is the more talented of the two Tupelo songwriters. I love Americana/Roots Rock, and I think Jay has grown into a very accomplished songwriter, and could be as good as Earle or Williams given the time they've had in their careers.

The other point (and the bigger point) was that Wilco are this year's critic's darlings, rock and roll savior geniuses, etc, etc, JUST like Radiohead were so gonna save R&R after OK Computer. It seems like as soon as a decent/good band goes off the deep end (or, as many put it, in new directions because of growth as artists) the critics all jump on the bandwagon and ride them down into flames. Case in point, who, other than Radiohead fans not alienated by the latest streak of wierdness, cared about the last Radiohead album? Rabbits in the forest?

I do agree that critics are responsible for the "overrating" of most albums... but what I don't get is how they (and Wilco fans) can take stabs at Jay Farrar and call his recent stuff trash to promote whatever Wilco puts out. I think if anyone who isn't a major fan of either could sit down and listen to each band and hear a major difference in quality, Farrar's stuff over Wilco's.

Personally, I think Jeff Tweedy should kick the pain killers, lose the flannel, get back with Jay, drink a few beers, and they should do another Tupelo album... because that stuff was brilliant.

[keith from ny]

The other point (and the bigger point) was that Wilco are this year's critic's darlings, rock and roll savior geniuses, etc, etc, JUST like Radiohead were so gonna save R&R after OK Computer.  It seems like as soon as a decent/good band goes off the deep end (or, as many put it, in new directions because of growth as artists) the critics all jump on the bandwagon and ride them down into flames.  Case in point, who, other than Radiohead fans not alienated by the latest streak of wierdness, cared about the last Radiohead album?  Rabbits in the forest?

I really can't remember reading a bad review of Hail to the Thief (and I'm not talking about their fans). I think it's brilliant myself, if not quite on the level of OK Computer.

At any rate, while I also prefer Ferrar to Wilco based on my limited exposure to both, I'll readily acknowledge it's really a matter of personal taste.